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Post by GIMH on May 17, 2011 6:21:33 GMT -5
The Sun absolutely does not only engage in humorous falsehoods. Look up what they had to say about the Hillsborough Disaster before dismissing these things.
It is easily the most powerful media body in the UK, it doesn't matter that it's 'just' a tabloid - the bulk of the country read tabloids.
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Post by J.B on May 17, 2011 6:37:13 GMT -5
Putting your trusted news source on the same level as a tabloid newspaper totally undermines your point. How much thought did you put into that post? Irrelevant. If you're upset that a media source is allegedly lying, you should be upset at all the other media sources that are doing the same. And don't pretend that some people don't get their news from The Sun. And, setting The Sun aside for right now, how about MSNBC? It's the left wing equivalent to Fox News, but I never see the liberal left bash MSNBC! Again, it's all about consistency, and the Fox News bashers lack of it. Why the fuck does someone who lives in Washington give a shit?
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Post by J.B on May 17, 2011 6:39:07 GMT -5
Don't underestimate the power of The Sun. To call it "just" a tabloid shows a lack of knowledge of history. The Sun has been calling and endorsing correct General Election results for over 30 years now. It's political influence is still massive. One of the first visitors to Downing Street last year after the Election was one R. Murdoch. The only political influence he has in the UK is through his newspapers (TV News channels are subject to strict impartiality rules). Barely. It waits until it is clear who is going to win the election and then jumps on the bandwagon a couple of weeks beforehand so it can convince people like you of it's influence on Britain when the influence is minimal.
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Post by bonkers on May 17, 2011 8:44:02 GMT -5
'ITS THE SUN WOT WON IT!!!'
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Post by gdforever on May 17, 2011 11:08:50 GMT -5
The Sun absolutely does not only engage in humorous falsehoods. Look up what they had to say about the Hillsborough Disaster before dismissing these things. It is easily the most powerful media body in the UK, it doesn't matter that it's 'just' a tabloid - the bulk of the country read tabloids. But since when has The Sun been presented as a trusted news source so that NL4E would take the fact that The Suns inaccuracies should excuse Fox news behavior. Personally I've never seen it referred to on here with anything other than varying levels of derision.
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Post by J.B on May 17, 2011 13:07:57 GMT -5
To all you new users NL4E is an idiot, don't take what he says so seriously.
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Post by Rifles on May 17, 2011 13:11:21 GMT -5
To all you new users NL4E is an idiot, don't take what he says so seriously. You shouldn't call him an idiot. I don't think he's aware of how he comes off, but I wouldn't say he's an idiot.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 15:14:04 GMT -5
The Sun absolutely does not only engage in humorous falsehoods. Look up what they had to say about the Hillsborough Disaster before dismissing these things. It is easily the most powerful media body in the UK, it doesn't matter that it's 'just' a tabloid - the bulk of the country read tabloids. But since when has The Sun been presented as a trusted news source so that NL4E would take the fact that The Suns inaccuracies should excuse Fox news behavior. Personally I've never seen it referred to on here with anything other than varying levels of derision. I never said The Sun's antics excuse that of Fox News. I did say that I'm not bothered by both. And I did say that those who bash Fox but not MSNBC or The Sun are politically motivated. The Fox News bashers don't care about fair media, because if they did they would complain about MSNBC, The Sun, The New York Times, etc as well. No. Instead, Fox News is attacked because it's 1. A staple of conservatism and 2. Successful For the last time, you can't complain about Fox News, yet ignore or support the other media. The hate for Fox is manifested in ideology, and nothing more. Answer this question: Would you hate Fox News as much if they just simply changed their name to Fox Politics?
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Post by gdforever on May 17, 2011 15:18:49 GMT -5
But since when has The Sun been presented as a trusted news source so that NL4E would take the fact that The Suns inaccuracies should excuse Fox news behavior. Personally I've never seen it referred to on here with anything other than varying levels of derision. I never said The Sun's antics excuse that of Fox News. I did say that I'm not bothered by both. And I did say that those who bash Fox but not MSNBC or The Sun are politically motivated. The Fox News bashers don't care about fair media, because if they did they would complain about MSNBC, The Sun, The New York Times, etc as well. No. Instead, Fox News is attacked because it's 1. A staple of conservatism and 2. Successful For the last time, you can't complain about Fox News, yet ignore or support the other media. The hate for Fox is manifested in ideology, and nothing more. Answer this question: Would you hate Fox News as much if they just simply changed their name to Fox Politics? Where do you get the impression here that anyone is endorsing the Sun as a reliable news source?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 15:41:08 GMT -5
I never said The Sun's antics excuse that of Fox News. I did say that I'm not bothered by both. And I did say that those who bash Fox but not MSNBC or The Sun are politically motivated. The Fox News bashers don't care about fair media, because if they did they would complain about MSNBC, The Sun, The New York Times, etc as well. No. Instead, Fox News is attacked because it's 1. A staple of conservatism and 2. Successful For the last time, you can't complain about Fox News, yet ignore or support the other media. The hate for Fox is manifested in ideology, and nothing more. Answer this question: Would you hate Fox News as much if they just simply changed their name to Fox Politics? Where do you get the impression here that anyone is endorsing the Sun as a reliable news source? I don't. Hence the original question: Why is The Sun ignored because of it's farcical content, but Fox attacked for allegedly doing pretty much the same thing? Again, it comes down to the politics of Fox, which is absent in The Sun. If you're being consistent, you should treat both with equal disdain. If you truly cared about media fairness, you wouldn't just put your attention on one entity, rather, you would focus on all the wrong entities, no matter their scope, intention, or political leanings. I don't care if you hate Fox News because it's conservative. I just wish people would stop masquerading behind their true reasons.
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Post by GIMH on May 17, 2011 16:03:08 GMT -5
The Sun absolutely does not only engage in humorous falsehoods. Look up what they had to say about the Hillsborough Disaster before dismissing these things. It is easily the most powerful media body in the UK, it doesn't matter that it's 'just' a tabloid - the bulk of the country read tabloids. But since when has The Sun been presented as a trusted news source so that NL4E would take the fact that The Suns inaccuracies should excuse Fox news behavior. Personally I've never seen it referred to on here with anything other than varying levels of derision. Yeah, that may be the case on here, I'm too new to comment. Same on the other forums I go on as well. But it is hugely far-reaching in the UK. And whether you want to match their election predictions to cause or effect, the fact is it's the most read newspaper and the opinions they spout get repeated as fact by many of its readers. Sadly.
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Post by J.B on May 17, 2011 16:24:49 GMT -5
To all you new users NL4E is an idiot, don't take what he says so seriously. You shouldn't call him an idiot. I don't think he's aware of how he comes off, but I wouldn't say he's an idiot. Nah, hes just an idiot.
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Post by Rifles on May 17, 2011 16:45:25 GMT -5
Honestly, the issue with Fox News isn't even the news. It's the loud mouths like Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. O'Reilly tries to pretend he's neutral. Beck is psychotic and probably thinks he's a younger, chubbier Moses. Limbaugh is a blow-hard bigot.
I know people I've talked to that shit on Fox News tend to focus their energy on those types of guys. The news is slanted but it's not like if you watch Fox News the entire world seems different.
Speaking from my own experience, I see a lot more negativity, bigotry and racism from the conservatives I know than any other group of people. I'm not lumping them all in there, but just like any group of people, the extremists can cast a pretty big shadow.
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Post by thuperthonic on May 17, 2011 16:57:26 GMT -5
Fox News, MSNBC, The Sun, et al. are all rubbish. It's not news; it's entertainment. Bill O'Reilly is an entertainer, as is Keith Olbermann (and Jon Stewart for that matter... at least The Daily Show is honest about what they do), and whoever else you wanna name.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 17:13:26 GMT -5
Honestly, the issue with Fox News isn't even the news. It's the loud mouths like Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. O'Reilly tries to pretend he's neutral. Beck is psychotic and probably thinks he's a younger, chubbier Moses. Limbaugh is a blow-hard bigot. I know people I've talked to that shit on Fox News tend to focus their energy on those types of guys. The news is slanted but it's not like if you watch Fox News the entire world seems different. Speaking from my own experience, I see a lot more negativity, bigotry and racism from the conservatives I know than any other group of people. I'm not lumping them all in there, but just like any group of people, the extremists can cast a pretty big shadow. Rush isn't on Fox.
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Post by Rifles on May 17, 2011 18:07:44 GMT -5
He's not on the channel but he's lumped in with those guys. You know what I mean.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 18:11:21 GMT -5
He's not on the channel but he's lumped in with those guys. You know what I mean. Yes. But your Freudian slip inadvertently proved my point. You lumped Rush in there because he's conservative. But why not all the leftists who manipulate the news, too? You just showed that this attack is politically and ideologically motivated.
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Post by thuperthonic on May 17, 2011 18:19:15 GMT -5
STFU, dude. They are all the same. It's just entertainment. They fight, we watch/listen and lose brain cells.
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Post by gdforever on May 17, 2011 18:22:30 GMT -5
Where do you get the impression here that anyone is endorsing the Sun as a reliable news source? I don't. Hence the original question: Why is The Sun ignored because of it's farcical content, but Fox attacked for allegedly doing pretty much the same thing? Again, it comes down to the politics of Fox, which is absent in The Sun. If you're being consistent, you should treat both with equal disdain. If you truly cared about media fairness, you wouldn't just put your attention on one entity, rather, you would focus on all the wrong entities, no matter their scope, intention, or political leanings. I don't care if you hate Fox News because it's conservative. I just wish people would stop masquerading behind their true reasons. Who on hear was saying that the Sun was a good source of news. I think we can all agree that stupid journalism is stupid journalism left or right. The defense for a news source shouldn't be, "well other people do it" it should be "watch us because we'll be journalists not pandering monkeys doggedly supporting our party and slandering all opposition" Wish someone would do that. But people like you that think that political bias in journalism should be allowed to flourish to the extent that it does on MSNBC and Fox is exactly the problem. Two sides both spreading misinformation does NOT equal an enlightened population.
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Post by Rifles on May 17, 2011 18:25:42 GMT -5
He's not on the channel but he's lumped in with those guys. You know what I mean. Yes. But your Freudian slip inadvertently proved my point. You lumped Rush in there because he's conservative. But why not all the leftists who manipulate the news, too? You just showed that this attack is politically and ideologically motivated. Attack? There is no attack, haha. YOU started this out of the blue. For whatever reason you got the itch to play the poor victim somehow in a thread totally unrelated to the current discussion. Fox News gets shit on because of the people I mentioned before. Because instead of just discussing current events, people like Glenn Beck pretend armageddon is upon us and Barack Obama is Satan. Bill O'Reilly calls liberals "pin heads" and acts like a smug douche trying to pretend he's neutral instead of being even remotely truthful. From MY experience watching various news channels and programs, I have seen way more negativity and wild shit on Fox News than other channels. From what i've seen of MSNBC, they tend to make light of conservatives, poke fun at them etc. whereas O'Reilly and others lift their noses and pretend like everyone else is beneath them. There's a certain pompousness and arrogance that a lot of conservatives exhibit (yourself included at times) and that's what turns me off, personally. MOST of the conservatives I know and the ones i've observed on TV tend to have this "i am right no matter what you say" attitude. I realize you will combat that with some trivial nonsense you saw on another channel, but that is just what i have seen. I avoid both MSNBC and Fox News because I know how slanted they are. I try to stay in the middle if I can help it. It's extremely difficult these days because everyone has an agenda. There is no attack in this thread. I realize you feel outnumbered because you don't have any conservative pals on the forum, but jumping on everyone because they didn't make a point of saying "WAIT A MINUTE - if you're saying The Sun is shit, why aren't you also mentioning every other slanted source of anything remotely considered news?" That's ridiculous.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 18:38:17 GMT -5
I don't. Hence the original question: Why is The Sun ignored because of it's farcical content, but Fox attacked for allegedly doing pretty much the same thing? Again, it comes down to the politics of Fox, which is absent in The Sun. If you're being consistent, you should treat both with equal disdain. If you truly cared about media fairness, you wouldn't just put your attention on one entity, rather, you would focus on all the wrong entities, no matter their scope, intention, or political leanings. I don't care if you hate Fox News because it's conservative. I just wish people would stop masquerading behind their true reasons. Who on hear was saying that the Sun was a good source of news. I think we can all agree that stupid journalism is stupid journalism left or right. The defense for a news source shouldn't be, "well other people do it" it should be "watch us because we'll be journalists not pandering monkeys doggedly supporting our party and slandering all opposition" Wish someone would do that. But people like you that think that political bias in journalism should be allowed to flourish to the extent that it does on MSNBC and Fox is exactly the problem. Two sides both spreading misinformation does NOT equal an enlightened population. The Fox News haters have yet to address why they don't attack MSNBC, or The New York Times. Until that time comes, I will continue to champion the idea that the attack on Fox is politically motivated and nothing more. And no, there's nothing wrong with partisan divides in the media. What's wrong is trying to control the media because you disagree with the points of view presented. I dislike MSNBC, I dislike NYT, although I will occasionally read them both. But I will never go on a crusade saying they don't have the right to present their 'information' the way they want to. Controlling the media is a very dangerous proposition.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 18:42:47 GMT -5
I realize you feel outnumbered because you don't have any conservative pals on the forum Erm, so once again you just inadvertently admitted that this discussion is politically motivated. If you were truly for fair media, then it wouldn't matter the ideological prospective. But instead, you just admitted it would help my cause if I had a conservative supporting me, thus showing that this whole issue is partisan motivated.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on May 17, 2011 18:47:30 GMT -5
Yes. But your Freudian slip inadvertently proved my point. You lumped Rush in there because he's conservative. But why not all the leftists who manipulate the news, too? You just showed that this attack is politically and ideologically motivated. Fox News gets shit on because of the people I mentioned before. Because instead of just discussing current events, people like Glenn Beck pretend armageddon is upon us and Barack Obama is Satan. Bill O'Reilly calls liberals "pin heads" and acts like a smug douche trying to pretend he's neutral instead of being even remotely truthful. Sigh. Look at MSNBC, what is the freaking difference? And while you may not like MSNBC, I have yet to see a full attack on that organization from you and other left wingers. Why is that? Hmm.... CONSISTENCY is all I ask for.
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Post by Rifles on May 17, 2011 19:18:36 GMT -5
Erm, so once again you just inadvertently admitted that this discussion is politically motivated. If you were truly for fair media, then it wouldn't matter the ideological prospective. But instead, you just admitted it would help my cause if I had a conservative supporting me, thus showing that this whole issue is partisan motivated. I didn't inadvertently admit anything. I never argued hate for Fox News wasn't politically motivated. What I did was explain why I don't like that channel and the things I've seen on it that rub me the wrong way. Of course this discussion is politically motivated. When you jump in and say "hey guys, why aren't you taking jabs at MSNBC?" you turn it into a left vs right debate immediately and then try to pretend that wasn't your intention. Everyone knows you're conservative. Let's see - the conservative guy on the forum kicks down the door bitching about how his poor Fox News gets shit on and wants to know why MSNBC isn't brought up in the same breath. Uhhh...no one was talking about media credibility until you started this whole thing. You began the discussion with partisan bullshit by claiming Fox News gets heat while MSNBC doesn't. Then you try to take some invisible high ground and pretend you were just talking about general media credibility. No, that's where we differ. You don't want consistency. You want someone to go "You're right!" and pat you on the back and talk about what a smart person you are. You start these discussions because you think you have a great point and you want to expose people and feel like some kind of pseudo-internet-genius. You almost never actually read people's responses to your posts. Instead you pick out one line that you think you can exploit and you go off on that tangent. If you read back what i said you will see i explained my own personal experience with the various networks and shows, as well as my own personal experience with conservatives. Those are the conclusions I have drawn from what i have seen. If MSNBC has an equivalent to Glenn Beck who pretends he's on some quest from God to right the wrongs and simultaneously preaches the end of the world, then that guy's an asshole too. Glenn Beck is a high profile dude so i've seen more of him than his MSNBC equivalent. If MSNBC has a douchey mirror version of Bill O'Reilly then that guy's a dick too. I could give a shit about either of those channels. My experience with the conservatives i've known and observed is there's an heir of "i'm right and you're wrong", a pompous arrogrance a lot of times and many of them are hateful and negative towards people who don't agree with their beliefs. You don't do much to combat those stereotypes. The discussions you start are always based on the premise that you are correct no matter what anyone else says. They're not debates or discussions. You are never open to anyone else's point of view or feedback. You just find whatever little nugget you can try to exploit and twist it to fit your agenda. Ignore ALL the things I posted regarding why i feel the way i do about Fox News...none of that matters, no, even though it explains why i, personally, don't like them - disproving your point that it's politically based.
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Post by NYR on May 17, 2011 22:22:25 GMT -5
An educated person doesn't get influenced by the media alone. People need to take more accountability for their actions. This is akin to liberals saying Happy Meals from McDonalds is responsible for childhood obesity. What nonsense. It certainly doesn't help. reminds me of the eddie izzard bit on the nra. oh, and l4e, please quit the martyr act.
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