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Post by halftheworld on Jan 24, 2006 9:08:44 GMT -5
What I would do?
Either think about: What in the world could make a man like OBL a man full of hate towards the US. And why do people in the mid east symphasize with him? And then try to change THAT.
But ok, I must admitt: making me and my mates fucking rich sounds enticing aswell.
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Post by Moorish on Jan 24, 2006 11:49:47 GMT -5
So if the US gets bombed again, who will you be on here moaning about? Bush?? For his constitution-disavowing actions having failed to stop (and, whisper it, maybe even INCITING) the terrorists? Or will you -- oooh yes, I think this seems more plausible -- somehow find a way to blame the Democrats for it?? "It's your fault!! You, the weak, rudderless ones on the left there! Yeah that's right - you! Hilary Clinton did it!! Al Gore did it!! John Kerry has a personal Jihad going on!" Shut up, cretin.
Next time you feel like posting some load of right wing opinionated propoganda masquerading as news and then pontificating about your wanker of a leader, please think twice. It's as useful, and about as objective, as someone else posting a Michael Moore editorial.
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Post by Superguiller. on Jan 24, 2006 12:11:50 GMT -5
live4evr, man, i really can't believe what you're saying. Would you just read what you typed? WARRANTLESS SURVEILLANCE. Warrantless. Can't you fucking read? You're going to give away all your personal information to that fuck up? this guy that bombs innocent people first and says "I don't know shit, but I would have done it anyway" later?
I can't believe half the US voted this guy. I really can't believe it.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 24, 2006 15:44:04 GMT -5
Halftheworld: It's not that simple, if it was, everyone would live in peace....the world simply doesnt work that way. OBL is a terrorist, NOT a leader of a country. If he was a leader who fairly represented a country, then maybe talking would work....but what OBL wants just simply doesnt cut it, and if we give into him, more terrorists will rise up bc they see they can get their way--hence no nation negotiates with terrorists....
Lisamoorish: I never know what you're on about. You never stay on topic, you take things out of context, and you dont no what you're talking about. If there is another attack, CIA, FBI and all will get the blame. Dems would focus their blame on Bush though. Which is hypocrtical bc Dems blame Bush doing everything in his power to stop Al-Qaeda and all, so for the Dems one min to say "Al-Qaeda arnt THAT real of a threat, Bush is wasting time, money, freedom...." but then blame him for the next attack is just absurd....
Sir Champagne: That's the title of the article. That is what it is. Warrantless Surv. It is not illegal. It is not unconsitutional. It may take some freedoms away (not really though) but so does the likes of CCTV, Baggage searches etc...it is essential to do everything you can (legally) to make sure that the US populace is secure. What do you lose if Bush hears a convo from Afgahn to the US? NOTHING. But what do you lose if Bush doesnt do this? POSSIBLY YOUR LIFE, OR LIVES OF OTHERES. Now, what would you rather sacrfise....dumbasses!!
Likewise, I cant believe slightly less than half voted for Kerry, who cant make decisions, cant stand by the few decisions he makes, and who doesnt believe in the best interests of the US and the rest of the world (im sorry, but pulling out troops when we arnt ready to would create EVEN MORE chaos in Iraq, you foolish people)
Republicans will remain in power, McCain in '08 Hillary Clinton has NO chance, even the majority of Dems agree with that
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Post by brumoscardo on Jan 24, 2006 16:41:32 GMT -5
it is essential to do everything you can (legally) to make sure that the US populace is secure. Then you should start from the early point which got you in the first place. Stop bombing countries for oil or whatever reason to make the US richer and the rest of the world poorer. Stop giving guns and supporting government imperialism all over the world. Stop creating caos over nothing. Stop and think. Think where it's getting you guys to this point.
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Post by nyr401994 on Jan 24, 2006 18:09:37 GMT -5
for the Dems one min to say "Al-Qaeda arnt THAT real of a threat, Bush is wasting time, money, freedom...." but then blame him for the next attack is just absurd.... please provide exact quotes and references for when they said that. by the way, republican pundits are comparing every person who's anti-bush to osama bin laden. check it out and you'll see exactly and precisely what they're saying. www.crooksandliars.comto call every naysayer treasonous is beyond offensive. we love this country as much as you all do.
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Post by halftheworld on Jan 24, 2006 18:10:40 GMT -5
Halftheworld: It's not that simple, if it was, everyone would live in peace....the world simply doesnt work that way. OBL is a terrorist, NOT a leader of a country. If he was a leader who fairly represented a country, then maybe talking would work....but what OBL wants just simply doesnt cut it, and if we give into him, more terrorists will rise up bc they see they can get their way--hence no nation negotiates with terrorists.... Jesus, I KNOW he is not a leader of a country, but does that matter? Where did I say we should talk to him? I said you should try to understand how he could become that person he is now. You should just maybe accept, that this guy was not born evil! And he didn't hate the US from the day of his birth. And maybe you should open your eyes and see, that this guy is respected in wide parts of the Mid East. WHY? This is the question you should ask. No WHO? And to be honest: you already HAVE surrendered to him. You showed everyone, that you do not give a fuck about the principles you hold so high. Maybe you should just try to look at things from a Mid-Eastern point of view.
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Post by nyr401994 on Jan 24, 2006 18:11:09 GMT -5
mind you, 9/11 is more of Clinton's fault, than Bush's and that's why 9/11 happened in clinton's administration Whoever brought up that Benjamin Franklin quotation earlier was a million per cent correct. that's me! ;D by the way, what do you have against hilary clinton? if it's "just because," you shouldn't be talking shit about her.
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Post by lionsden® on Jan 24, 2006 18:46:06 GMT -5
mind you, 9/11 is more of Clinton's fault, than Bush's and that's why 9/11 happened in clinton's administration well it was planned during his administration intelligence failure maybe? have not had an attack since *knocks on wood*
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 24, 2006 18:53:03 GMT -5
no, Franklin's quote it irrelevant in today's world...you're wrong one
Bin Laden wants us out of the Middle East, he wants us to convert to Islam blah blah fuckin blah....hes also jealous me thinks of our success.....and there is such things as mentally ill, some of these people are indeed that....others are brainwashed by propganda etc...there will NEVER be a peaceful world NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, human beings arnt like that...some people kill for no reason what so ever, thats called a hate crime...
and Bin Laden DOES NOT represent the middle east...ffs....if he was a president of a country, fine, talk to him first, try diplomacy....Do we talk to criminals in the US who rob and kill? sure, we try, but they are put into jail/death penalty anyway....and more criminals exist....its a cycle that will never be broken on any level of violence....
and Hillary Clinton just plain sucks (for the Democrates)....the media dislike her, every liberal i've talked to at my school (including one huge democrat teacher) dislikes her
She (was for the war with Iraq) is now against the war with Iraq but she never really states it. Her husband-enough said. Her plantation remark. Shes just not a strong candidate....Kerry had a better chance than her, and we all saw how that went....
McCain, should he run, will win it. The teacher mentioned above, along with another liberal teacher and a few of my friends (which does matter, cos we can all vote in 2008) said that McCain is one of the v few Republicans they like and they will prob end up voting for him if he runs.
McCain in 08 i believe would be the best decision. I know i would vote for him
Now, tell me, how the hell is Hillary a good candidate?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 24, 2006 21:40:04 GMT -5
If there was another major attack in the US after 9/11, you would all ask why Bush didn't do everything he could, in his power, to prevent it
You can't have it both ways....
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Post by mape on Jan 24, 2006 23:55:01 GMT -5
others are brainwashed by propganda remind you of someone... it's like rain on your wedding day
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Post by nyr401994 on Jan 25, 2006 0:08:42 GMT -5
If there was another major attack in the US after 9/11, you would all ask why Bush didn't do everything he could, in his power, to prevent it You can't have it both ways.... all i'm asking from my president is to prevent any attack possible, but in a non-illegal manner and in a way that doesn't breach the constitution. by the way, while i don't like hilary clinton, she has done a great job in new york. oh, and just so you know, if mccain runs in '08, he's got my vote. he's a REAL republican (i believe in many things republicans believe in, but i lean more to the left because of how much this administration divides this country), not a right-wing, religious nut job.
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Post by brumoscardo on Jan 25, 2006 0:17:26 GMT -5
Halftheworld: It's not that simple, if it was, everyone would live in peace....the world simply doesnt work that way. OBL is a terrorist, NOT a leader of a country. If he was a leader who fairly represented a country, then maybe talking would work....but what OBL wants just simply doesnt cut it, and if we give into him, more terrorists will rise up bc they see they can get their way--hence no nation negotiates with terrorists.... Jesus, I KNOW he is not a leader of a country, but does that matter? Where did I say we should talk to him? I said you should try to understand how he could become that person he is now. You should just maybe accept, that this guy was not born evil! And he didn't hate the US from the day of his birth. And maybe you should open your eyes and see, that this guy is respected in wide parts of the Mid East. WHY? This is the question you should ask. No WHO? And to be honest: you already HAVE surrendered to him. You showed everyone, that you do not give a fuck about the principles you hold so high. Maybe you should just try to look at things from a Mid-Eastern point of view. You do make sense man. Same thoughts here. Hate don't come out of nowhere. I've never seen the US apologise for bombing civilians. Hey live4ever: what do you think about the atomic bomb?
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Post by Moorish on Jan 25, 2006 5:18:27 GMT -5
all i'm asking from my president is to prevent any attack possible, but in a non-illegal manner and in a way that doesn't breach the constitution. Shut up traitor!! You hate America!! You are basically slagging off GWB, who as we all know is the best and greatest American President ever!!! He gets up in the morning and wrestles grizzly bears dressed as terrorists, goes for a brief run before bombing some towel-head nation a gajillion miles away he's never heard of before, then erodes a few basic human rights and civil liberties with torture and spying on his own people before meeting up with his big weapons manufacturer and oil baron buddies in the evening to hand out money and cigars. And why does he do this?? BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU!!! So love him back, damn you! Or we'll call you un-American!! To Camp X-Ray with you, Johnny Liberal!! "You are free, to do as we tell you" - Bill Hicks
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Post by lionsden® on Jan 25, 2006 11:41:51 GMT -5
others are brainwashed by propganda it's like rain on your wedding dayThat's not irony
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 25, 2006 15:38:27 GMT -5
yes it is
he told me to respect other peoples opinions, but then he tells me that my opinions dont count bc i have been 'brainwashed'
the EXACT quote:
"You have to respect other people's opinions you brainwashed nitwit"
IRONIC....what is he doing?--he tells me to respect others opinions, then discredits mine....you people are fucking stupid
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 25, 2006 15:41:17 GMT -5
and concerning Hillary, read below...shes not going to win...she has NO chance what-so-ever
RODHAM WATCH Poll: Only 16 percent definitely back Hillary Gallup survey shows majority of Americans oppose senator
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: January 25, 2006 2:13 p.m. Eastern © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.
The latest national survey does not bode well for New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, should she seek the presidency in 2008.
A Gallup poll for CNN and USA Today reveals 51 percent of Americans say they would absolutely not vote for Mrs. Clinton for president, with only 16 percent definitely backing her. Another 32 percent say they'd consider voting for the Democrat.
Thus, committed anti-Hillary voters outnumber pro-Hillary voters by 3-1.
The figures are impacting talk radio today, as conservative host Rush Limbaugh pointed out it is not inevitable that Mrs. Clinton will be president.
"I don't think it's written in the clouds, written in stone, written in the beach," said Limbaugh. "Hillary is not going to president. The Republican nominee will be, and that is why, folks, we have to be careful about who's nominated on our end."
He was responding to a concerned caller who said, "She is something to be afraid of, and fear has to motivate people."
The senator is especially unpopular among men, according to the Gallup poll, with 60 percent saying they'd definitely oppose Hillary for president, with 62 percent opposition from men 50 and over.
Among women, 22 percent say they're solid in backing Clinton, but just 11 percent of men agree. Only 14 percent of white Americans are committed supporters, with 28 percent of non-whites in the Democrat's fold.
Perhaps the worst harbinger is that even among self-proclaimed liberals, only 33 percent say they'd definitely vote for her.
Just last week, a Diageo/Hotline survey showed Hillary losing to Arizona. Sen. John McCain 52 to 36 percent in a hypothetical matchup. --
O FUCKIN SNAP
McCain vs. Hillary....McCain wins no doubt
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Post by lionsden® on Jan 25, 2006 15:53:37 GMT -5
yes it is he told me to respect other peoples opinions, but then he tells me that my opinions dont count bc i have been 'brainwashed' the EXACT quote: "You have to respect other people's opinions you brainwashed nitwit" IRONIC....what is he doing?--he tells me to respect others opinions, then discredits mine....you people are fucking stupid I meant the rain on your wedding day thing numbnuts
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Post by halftheworld on Jan 25, 2006 17:53:01 GMT -5
Yeah, that's exactly what I expected:
Jealousy... mental disease... propaganda...
Are you serious?!?!?!?! Wake up! And where the hell did I say, we should talk to him?
We should seek the real reason for radicalism, wich is NOT mental disease, propaganda or jealousy.
But d'you know, what i am really afraid of? The next democratic election in Pakistan. If george bush keeps bombing potential targets, accepting massive collateral damage-and that in a country that has a very US friendly President- it will end up in the same mess that we have in iran now. And Pakistan HAS the bomb.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 25, 2006 18:46:39 GMT -5
lol Lions, didnt see that...everyone in this thread is attacking me so i just assumed...haha --
right, this is the WAR on terror. What happens in wars? remind me? o yeh...PEOPLE DIE....of course we want to limit the number of civilians, but it happens
and if we kill 4 top Al-Qaeda members and 1 civilian in the same bombing, then its worth it. Those 4 may be responsible for thousands of deaths, and even more if they wernt killed...what dont you get
we cant do anything else. a perfect world will NEVER exist, no matter what we do. but when the enemy is scatted in caves, some villagers will end up as victims too. thats just the reality of the situation. of course its bad, and of course we need to make sure we dont kill anyone but the enemy, but thats just not the way it works....
if we were intentionally killing villagers, then you have a case. but right now you sound absurd. we bombed them out of Afghan along with the Taliban..and it worked...
what would you do differently? you still havnt made yourself clear....
we cant: -talk to this type of enemy -give into any of their demands (ie pull troops out bc OBL told us to)
and poverty is a poor excuse. many of those involved in 9/11 were rich. OBL himself is a rich bastard. and theres poverty in the US, you dont see them joining Al-Qaeda...
i think part of it is jealousy. we are the most successful, and powerful nation....they dont like that....but i dont give a shit what they like or dont like....its not our job to appease them!!
looked what happened last time we appeased an enemy (Hitler, WWII)...that argument is valid for Saddam too, mind you....get rid of them before they become too powerful (Nuclear Weapons, more terror cells, better organization/planning, more allie, etc etc)
you can look at the whole situation in 2 ways: 1.) we're currently in/or about to be in WWIII 2.) we're preventing WWIII by these actions
i dont know which category, right now either once is applicable....
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Post by brumoscardo on Jan 25, 2006 19:43:50 GMT -5
and poverty is a poor excuse. many of those involved in 9/11 were rich. OBL himself is a rich bastard. and theres poverty in the US, you dont see them joining Al-Qaeda... Poverty in the US? hahaha yeah right. You've never seen someone real poor man. You know, I was just about to take my plane in NYC back to here, and I took a bus that by some blokes at the hotel was pretty dangerous coz I would pass by some poor neighbourhood around the island. So, took the bus and was there with 5 bags at the end of it. Passing through what looked like the poorest one I'd seen in that afternoon and the bus stops. A guy with nice nike shoes with his homies sits to my side and suddenly he pulls out a portable PS. hahaha I was like WTF?? You don't know what's misery man. About OBL being rich. yeah he is. But he's a crazy and sad person. And very intelligent too. Intelligent enough to convince ppl that have nothing to lose to stick bombs to their bodies and get on a bus. Get real.
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Post by mape on Jan 25, 2006 20:30:35 GMT -5
how can i take your opinions seriously? I see a common pattern in all your political rants -
1) you post some bullshit article from some right-wing propoganda source - worldnetdaily is nothing more than a mouthpiece for right-wing propoganda, and a lot of times they sound like right-wing Christian extremists. Jack Kelly? He is known to write stories that don't add up and they are usually full of BS. isn't he the same Jack Kelly that was caught writing fake stories for USA today? So if you want to make a serious argument, at least use mainstream sources. And before you say it, i have never quoted anything michael moore has said, nor have i seen any of his work.
2) then piggy-back your opinion on that
3) your opinion gets refuted by others here. To which you have no response other than to change the subject, say you don't have time to respond, or best of all you say the exact same thing as you did previously, but reworded. So we are back to start a new lap.
You would make a great spin doctor.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 25, 2006 20:31:10 GMT -5
dude, YOU need to get real
Al-Qaeda is an organization that is, well, ORGANIZED
you've got the bomb makes, the chemists, the planners, the spys, the physicists etc etc....
yeh, of course there are alot of people who have nothing, and are sucked in by the propaganda
but to stop the whole thing from functioning, we need to stop the smart people first, and poverty is not the stem of that.
Also, take the hijackers, if you will. They could have made a life of being a pilot. In fact, they were living decently anyway. But they could have become pilots. They had potential to do something with their lives.
The London bombers: they lived in London for decades, lived decently also, been to college etc....but something in them, not poverty, caused them to act how they did.
So no, poverty may be a reason, but its not the main reason and its not the only reason.
And even if it was. IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE. My point earlier was that there are many poor people in the US (and yeh, they are more likely to steal and be violent) but alot arnt.
Another double standard, too. We just freed the Iraqi's. their lives are being made better as we speak. but people say it's not our place to do that. So, then how would we go about fixing poverty? Esp considering that you cant fix poverty with a corrupt dicator through diplomacy bc the leader is corrupt (Saddam, African countries etc) so it must be done by means of military, which you are all opposed to anyway...
Osama Bin Laden actually DECLARED war on America and the West in a video tape in the late 90s.
We are with war. Someone will win, and it will be us. It's a long war that will essentially never be completed because terrorism has and will always exist because there is alot of hatred along with sick people in this world. But we need to eliminate it as best we can, or it will just become worse and we can not risk that with the advancement of weapons. Nuclear Warfare will end the world, we need to prevent weapons getting into hands of people who would actually use them....and what weapon will be next? What weapon, in 10+ years time will be worse than a nuke...it's scary to think about isnt it.
What dont you people get. Do you all live in an ignorant bubble believing that the US and other western countries are invincible? Do you really believe the war on terror isnt worth it? If so, fine, you have the right to you're own view...as crazy as it is, but i just dont understand how people can think as such.
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Post by brumoscardo on Jan 25, 2006 21:28:12 GMT -5
pfff your view's so off man. you gotta start changing your principles to get it right. yeh, of course there are alot of people who have nothing, and are sucked in by the propaganda What propaganda are you talking about? That the US is evil? Bombing a country is very effective yes. Blowing their houses made of wood. Don't really need to spread the word. Also, take the hijackers, if you will. They could have made a life of being a pilot. In fact, they were living decently anyway. But they could have become pilots. They had potential to do something with their lives. A pilot? from where? American airlines? Living in the US? That's a joke right? Potencial yes. Oportunities, that's where we get to the principles mate. There are intelligent ppl all over the world. They need to get oportunities to it only man. The London bombers: they lived in London for decades, lived decently also, been to college etc....but something in them, not poverty, caused them to act how they did. Why did they get to London to have a decent life then man? Is it coz their country is stuck on misery and all his family is living there? Maybe. I'm european and my whole family lives in SA. Would I abandon them to have money? Why would I do that? Isn't it better to try making money here? Even if it's so fucking hard you can't even imagine? And even if it was. IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE. No.. not really. I'll put you on a jail with a storving man that hasn't eaten for one month and we see if you come out alive. We just freed the Iraqi's. Would you stop?? but people say it's not our place to do that. Of course not. UN is set to do that. But that wouldn't really bother the US, right? So, then how would we go about fixing poverty? Esp considering that you cant fix poverty with a corrupt dicator through diplomacy bc the leader is corrupt (Saddam, African countries etc) so it must be done by means of military, which you are all opposed to anyway... That would be amazing. But that's not what the US are really on about is it? We are with war. Someone will win, and it will be us. It's a long war that will essentially never be completed because terrorism has and will always exist because there is alot of hatred along with sick people in this world. But we need to eliminate it as best we can, or it will just become worse and we can not risk that with the advancement of weapons. Nuclear Warfare will end the world, we need to prevent weapons getting into hands of people who would actually use them....and what weapon will be next? What weapon, in 10+ years time will be worse than a nuke...it's scary to think about isnt it. I don't know. But you think they're producing weapons there or just buying it? Think about the industry in the US man. Look inside before looking outside. What dont you people get. Do you all live in an ignorant bubble believing that the US and other western countries are invincible? Do you really believe the war on terror isnt worth it? If so, fine, you have the right to you're own view...as crazy as it is, but i just dont understand how people can think as such. War on terror is a propaganda isn't it? And US are invincible? YES except maybe for N Korea. But I don't think you're interested on take a look overthere right?
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