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Post by Dominic on Jul 21, 2005 8:49:50 GMT -5
well you just did. I think you're wrong. I gave reasons why I think you're wrong but I think you're wrong. I'm sorry if that offends you. It shouldn't. It's just a bunch of opinions. I guess you could call making untruths like we're both right being tactful, I call it making untruths. That being said that doesn't make me not respect your opinion. In the absence of being sure taht I'm right I see your argument as plausible and I respect the reasons you think what you do. as for duncan's point about how we're not just biol. capable but we're better functioning if we eat meat I'm not sure if that's technically true. I think we can be just as well functioning iwhtout meat - worst case scenario you have to have a protein shake every now and again but I don't think that even taht is strictly speaking necessary. still even if you're correct then that means that aiming for our topmost physical health (instead of say, what many people find perfectly acceptable (vegetarians) level of health or instead of a terrible diet (that of most people who eat way too mush meat - (ie - you're only supposed to have 2-3 servings of meat a week I think but we've gone crazy) is more important than other creatures' life - (not saying that's necessarily wrong, just saying that that's the trade-off you're making) with regard to fur I think that if you are eating an animal you should DEFINITELY take its fur as well and if you're taking an animals fur then you should definitely eat it as well a less controversial point, as someone alluded to earlier, is the diea that maybe ethical treatment is more important than say their life itself. I have some understanding of this position. Ie - animals don't have that much of an advanced idea of their future life. so depriving them of this isn't much of a big deal. depriving their family members of their friends might still suck but you can't do anything about that. what you can do is minimize the pain these creatures feel - (b/c the methods used currently are cost-effective but ethically dubious) of course - humane killing woujld also mean our burgers would cost a little bit more key word there, Think, "you THINK wrong", look to my previous post that you shot down
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 10:50:47 GMT -5
and Kalas needs to take a logic class. Freedom for some is no freedom for others. Sure he doesn't think animals are important but again, why? how are they different from mentally retarded people. ALBERTZ u are the one who needs to take a logic class...FREEDOM IS a personal belief..so if i feel its ok FOR ME TO EAT MEAT THATS MY CHOICE... if thats not freedom for others thats there perogotive...my point is if i want to eat meat its my right to do so...thats freedom ..i dont need no logic class kid
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Post by giggergrl on Jul 21, 2005 10:54:17 GMT -5
and Kalas needs to take a logic class. Freedom for some is no freedom for others. Sure he doesn't think animals are important but again, why? how are they different from mentally retarded people. ALBERTZ u are the one who needs to take a logic class...FREEDOM IS a personal belief..so if i feel its ok FOR ME TO EAT MEAT THATS MY CHOICE... if thats not freedom for others thats there perogotive...my point is if i want to eat meat its my right to do so...thats freedom ..i dont need no logic class kid OK kalas I came to kiss your ass again... !!!! (yeah right...) anway, yes you are right - the truth is whatever is true for you. case closed as you say ! amen. as long as you respect and love animals in the process, which I know you do i.e. you had a strong bond with your boy appollo, God bless him. I PERSONALLY EAT MEAT but struggle with it. I used to be a veggie , for 10 years...I go for free range when possible bec. it is a more humane life. until they are killed. this topic has been knocking at my door again, same for pixie it seems. we are all diff. be well , Tam
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Post by Nicola on Jul 21, 2005 10:54:54 GMT -5
Anyone feel like going for a burger ?
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Post by giggergrl on Jul 21, 2005 10:57:16 GMT -5
Anyone feel like going for a burger ? CHEEKY ! LOL ! Tam
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Post by giggergrl on Jul 21, 2005 10:59:36 GMT -5
anyone old enuff to remember "the young ones ?" when Neil the hippy wld say "VEGETABLE RIGHTS ! " lol ! just making lite of things here, along with our beloved NicolaUK ! Tam
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 11:00:12 GMT -5
Anyone feel like going for a burger ? meeeeee i hate people who try and impose there beliefs on others ..if i wanna eat meat i will if someone doesent ..fine.. BUT DONT TRY AND CHANGE MY VIEWS .. thats whats wrong with todays world everybody is HOLIER THAN THOU FUCK ANYONE WHO IMPOSES THERE VIEWS ON ANYONE ELSE..THATS BULLSHIT..I WILL EAT AND DRINK AND WEAR WHAT I WANT..TO ALL THE "HOLIER THAN THOU'' SHITEADS...I AM ABOUT TO GO AND GET A DOUBLE WHOPPER..SO FUCK OFF
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Post by Dominic on Jul 21, 2005 11:01:03 GMT -5
if a pig is evil, like that pig from animal farm, is it ok to kill him and make peparoni outta his ass?
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Post by rockandroll on Jul 21, 2005 12:05:08 GMT -5
if a pig is evil, like that pig from animal farm, is it ok to kill him and make peparoni outta his ass? LOL! We would eat Napoleon......we keep Snowball alive ;D
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Post by giggergrl on Jul 21, 2005 12:07:42 GMT -5
Anyone feel like going for a burger ? meeeeee i hate people who try and impose there beliefs on others ..if i wanna eat meat i will if someone doesent ..fine.. BUT DONT TRY AND CHANGE MY VIEWS .. thats whats wrong with todays world everybody is HOLIER THAN THOU FUCK ANYONE WHO IMPOSES THERE VIEWS ON ANYONE ELSE..THATS BULLSHIT..I WILL EAT AND DRINK AND WEAR WHAT I WANT..TO ALL THE "HOLIER THAN THOU'' SHITEADS...I AM ABOUT TO GO AND GET A DOUBLE WHOPPER..SO FUCK OFF yes right again. I try not to impose my "personal yardstick" on ppl. " UNLESS THEY WANT me too. (with the exception of something like child abuse etc.) Tam
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Post by Dominic on Jul 21, 2005 12:45:11 GMT -5
if a pig is evil, like that pig from animal farm, is it ok to kill him and make peparoni outta his ass? LOL! We would eat Napoleon......we keep Snowball alive ;D ;D
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Post by albertzz on Jul 21, 2005 13:06:12 GMT -5
Anyone feel like going for a burger ? meeeeee i hate people who try and impose there beliefs on others ..if i wanna eat meat i will if someone doesent ..fine.. BUT DONT TRY AND CHANGE MY VIEWS .. thats whats wrong with todays world everybody is HOLIER THAN THOU FUCK ANYONE WHO IMPOSES THERE VIEWS ON ANYONE ELSE..THATS BULLSHIT..I WILL EAT AND DRINK AND WEAR WHAT I WANT..TO ALL THE "HOLIER THAN THOU'' SHITEADS...I AM ABOUT TO GO AND GET A DOUBLE WHOPPER..SO FUCK OFF with regard to dominic - well, it's funny (but at the same time animals aren't so much evil as amoral i think with regard to kalas - let me explain if I have freedom to do WHATEVER I want that means that other people can't have freedom. Why? because if I have freedom to do WHATEVER I want then that would include preventing you from doing what you want. So in this case your freedom to eat meat means NO freedom for the pig whatsoever. you think that's ok because the pig doesn't matter to you, at least not as much as its taste does. I don't want to/nor am I going over my position again I'm just explaining what I meant. Now, finally I'm hearing a lot of "you're not the boss of me" don't tell me what to do etc comments. And I understand where you're coming from to the extent that if we can't figure out for sure what the truth of the matter is then don't impose your belief on me. However, I think that we can discover the truth of the matter. I was trying to lay out my logic and others were theirs and we were getting somewhere. But I don't think giving up should be our starting point. Sure if we can't figure out a solution that is deductively valid then fine you do what you want I'll do what I want, but let's not resort to this defeatism before we've even really tried. why? b/c you might be making a horrible mistake.... like in child abuse, genocide and the like you could say "i don't want to impose my morality on others" but wait a second we think those things are wrong and we SHOULD impose our morality on others. Particularly the victims would agree that we shouldn't stand idly by and that you should have freedom to systematically obliterate a race.... so it's the same thing here... as it is in abortion, genocide and other cases we can't just say "do what you want" because not everyone can do what they want unless those against whom genocide and abortion and animal killing are committed don't count this could well be the case - but we should make sure it's the case first.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 13:25:12 GMT -5
meeeeee i hate people who try and impose there beliefs on others ..if i wanna eat meat i will if someone doesent ..fine.. BUT DONT TRY AND CHANGE MY VIEWS .. thats whats wrong with todays world everybody is HOLIER THAN THOU FUCK ANYONE WHO IMPOSES THERE VIEWS ON ANYONE ELSE..THATS BULLSHIT..I WILL EAT AND DRINK AND WEAR WHAT I WANT..TO ALL THE "HOLIER THAN THOU'' SHITEADS...I AM ABOUT TO GO AND GET A DOUBLE WHOPPER..SO FUCK OFF with regard to dominic - well, it's funny (but at the same time animals aren't so much evil as amoral i think with regard to kalas - let me explain if I have freedom to do WHATEVER I want that means that other people can't have freedom. Why? because if I have freedom to do WHATEVER I want then that would include preventing you from doing what you want. So in this case your freedom to eat meat means NO freedom for the pig whatsoever. you think that's ok because the pig doesn't matter to you, at least not as much as its taste does. I don't want to/nor am I going over my position again I'm just explaining what I meant. Now, finally I'm hearing a lot of "you're not the boss of me" don't tell me what to do etc comments. And I understand where you're coming from to the extent that if we can't figure out for sure what the truth of the matter is then don't impose your belief on me. However, I think that we can discover the truth of the matter. I was trying to lay out my logic and others were theirs and we were getting somewhere. But I don't think giving up should be our starting point. Sure if we can't figure out a solution that is deductively valid then fine you do what you want I'll do what I want, but let's not resort to this defeatism before we've even really tried. why? b/c you might be making a horrible mistake.... like in child abuse, genocide and the like you could say "i don't want to impose my morality on others" but wait a second we think those things are wrong and we SHOULD impose our morality on others. Particularly the victims would agree that we shouldn't stand idly by and that you should have freedom to systematically obliterate a race.... so it's the same thing here... as it is in abortion, genocide and other cases we can't just say "do what you want" because not everyone can do what they want unless those against whom genocide and abortion and animal killing are committed don't count this could well be the case - but we should make sure it's the case first. point taken ..this is why iu stopped posting on this board....its too deep and to problematic...i will stick To the lounge and OASIS TOPICS
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Post by feckarse on Jul 21, 2005 13:27:07 GMT -5
like in child abuse, genocide and the like you could say "i don't want to impose my morality on others" but wait a second we think those things are wrong and we SHOULD impose our morality on others. Particularly the victims would agree that we shouldn't stand idly by and that you should have freedom to systematically obliterate a race.... so it's the same thing here... sorry, but piss off likening eating meat to child abuse & genocide we're designed to eat meat. Animals eat animals and it's a major part of the best diet for us. And most people eat meat humanely, well i do anyway (ie buy free range eggs type of thing, wouldn't buy food if it was known the animals were kept in miserable conditions) don't go comparing it to child abuse for f*cks sake
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Post by albertzz on Jul 21, 2005 14:49:32 GMT -5
i'm not comparing it to child abuse to the extent that I think it is as bad as child abuse
rather
i'm saying that LIKE child abuse and LIKE slavery and Like abortion and LIKE genocide you CAN'T just say "oh do what you want" b/c doing what you want is infringing upon someone/something else. If that thing isn't important (as perhaps in the case of animals and foetuses) then no big deal if it is (as in the case of children, slaves, races) then it's not cool
my point was simply that the relativism that I was hearing doesn't make sense - ie - it doesn't make sense to say do whatever you want -because who is entitled to do what they want is precisely what is at issue
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Post by Dominic on Jul 21, 2005 15:20:06 GMT -5
i disagree animals are evil, wee fuckers, anyone have a bird shite on there head, or buy new sneaks only to step in shite, pureeee evillll
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Post by feckarse on Jul 21, 2005 17:03:46 GMT -5
i'm not comparing it to child abuse to the extent that I think it is as bad as child abuse rather i'm saying that LIKE child abuse and LIKE slavery and Like abortion and LIKE genocide you CAN'T just say "oh do what you want" b/c doing what you want is infringing upon someone/something else. If that thing isn't important (as perhaps in the case of animals and foetuses) then no big deal if it is (as in the case of children, slaves, races) then it's not cool my point was simply that the relativism that I was hearing doesn't make sense - ie - it doesn't make sense to say do whatever you want -because who is entitled to do what they want is precisely what is at issue but that is comparing it to child-abuse, by definition of the word "comparing" ....and puts the two together by association fair enough point otherwise anyway
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Post by J.Velvert on Jul 22, 2005 0:51:23 GMT -5
Feck, zzz is comparing like 'Andy Cole vs. a good striker'. They have something in common, but not much.
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Post by Black Rebel Motorcycle Pixie. on Jul 22, 2005 3:07:17 GMT -5
like in child abuse, genocide and the like you could say "i don't want to impose my morality on others" but wait a second we think those things are wrong and we SHOULD impose our morality on others. Particularly the victims would agree that we shouldn't stand idly by and that you should have freedom to systematically obliterate a race.... so it's the same thing here... sorry, but piss off likening eating meat to child abuse & genocide we're designed to eat meat. Animals eat animals and it's a major part of the best diet for us. And most people eat meat humanely, well i do anyway (ie buy free range eggs type of thing, wouldn't buy food if it was known the animals were kept in miserable conditions) don't go comparing it to child abuse for f*cks sake you wouldn't buy food if it was known the animals were kept in miserable conditions? I think a lot of people say that and have no idea what goes on in a slaughterhouse or even where the cows are kept. Same for pigs and chickens. I'm really not trying to say that eating meat is wrong cause that's only my personal opinion and like I said before everyone to their own.
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Post by nyr401994 on Jul 22, 2005 10:33:41 GMT -5
the thing that pisses me off is that these vegans and vegetarians wear sneakers that are made from animal skin. they wear suede or leather jackets. the bands from their wristwatches (if they're not metal) are made from animal skin. so before they criticize me, they better check their acts out.
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Post by Black Rebel Motorcycle Pixie. on Jul 23, 2005 1:38:37 GMT -5
the thing that pisses me off is that these vegans and vegetarians wear sneakers that are made from animal skin. they wear suede or leather jackets. the bands from their wristwatches (if they're not metal) are made from animal skin. so before they criticize me, they better check their acts out. Vegans actually don't. But it's up to them where to draw the line.
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