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Post by neila83 on Sept 22, 2019 14:22:54 GMT -5
No, that's not their argument, and completely twisting what people have said to shut down the debate is rather disingenuous. What many have consistently said is that they don't so much mind Liam working with songwriters, it's the kind of people he works with. There's a big difference between him hiring Adeles songwriters, and working with say, the Chemical brothers. So, shifting the goalposts. Exactly as I said. The Chemical Brothers have no more artistic credibility than a songwriter who's won a bloody Oscar for his songwriting. That's your subjective opinion masquerading as objective fact. "Spirit" is in the ear of the beholder. Acknowledging that instead of trying to force personal judgement as empirical fact would be more honest. More subjective argument posing as objective fact. I hear Lennon, Harrison, and on the outside, a bit of 70s Daltrey. Exactly the kind of music Liam's leaned on forever. By claiming Liam working with a heretofore unnamed songwriter other than those "soulless" ones you don't approve of would make less money, you're doing two things: 1. You introduce the accusation that it's all about the money, without needing to prove that unnamed songwriter X would have less commercial appeal. Nice. 2. You retain the ability to shift the goalposts again later, because you haven't named songwriter X, so no matter who Kurstin or Wyatt might be hypothetically replaced with, you can trot out the same argument. And there's the cherry on top: When out of arguments, move away from the point being argued and juist throw in an ad-hominem. The sheer cheek of you of all people taking issue with what I said, my god. You're the embodiment of every empty, dishonest argument in this community. Sorry it upsets you so much people have different opinions. However much you tell me I'm wrong, you're not going to change my opinion I would enjoy Liam doing something else more. I'm not sure how you can tel anyone that they are wrong to think that. It's what I would prefer him to do, and I stated the reasons I can't enjoy what he's doing. Obviously some people see no difference between Greg Kurstin and co and working with people more in his realm, others do see a difference, and the first group will not accept the second have a valid argument, seemingly purely on the basis it implies criticism of Liam, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure that you understand ad-hominem btw, mentioning the fact Liam's voice is covered in effects and has a hell of a lot of autotune is not ad-hominem, its entirely relevant to my point, because its a result of working with people like this. People love to criticise Noel for not giving them what he used to, well Liam isn't giving me what I loved him for. Fair enough no? As for it being all about the money, of course it is. Are you that naive?
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Post by ricardogce on Sept 22, 2019 14:28:10 GMT -5
Sorry it upsets you so much people have different opinions. However much you tell me I'm wrong, you're not going to change my opinion I would enjoy Liam doing something else more. I'm not sure how you can tel anyone that they are wrong to think that. It's what I would prefer him to do, and I stated the reasons I can't enjoy what he's doing. Your initial argument was that what Liam is doing now is objectively "soulless", a "cash-in", and inarguably worse than anything else he could be doing. Acknowledging that yours is just an opinion with no more validity than anyone else's is progress, I will say that much. You see how you poison the well even when feigning an attempt at actual discussion? This is what makes talking to you a waste, not your opinions. No, it isn't. Stating that that is why Liam's fans enjoy his current work, is. You'll have to go ahead and name that mystery songwriter you'd like Liam to work with whose association with him would NOT result in commercial success. After you've done that, we can continue. Shit or get off the pot.
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Post by neila83 on Sept 22, 2019 14:39:23 GMT -5
Sorry it upsets you so much people have different opinions. However much you tell me I'm wrong, you're not going to change my opinion I would enjoy Liam doing something else more. I'm not sure how you can tel anyone that they are wrong to think that. It's what I would prefer him to do, and I stated the reasons I can't enjoy what he's doing. Your initial argument was that what Liam is doing now is objectively "soulless", a "cash-in", and inarguably worse than anything else he could be doing. Acknowledging that yours is just an opinion with no more validity than anyone else's is progress, I will say that much. You see how you poison the well even when feigning an attempt at actual discussion? This is what makes talking to you a waste, not your opinions. No, it isn't. Stating that that is why Liam's fans enjoy his current work, is. You'll have to go ahead and name that mystery songwriter you'd like Liam to work with whose association with him would NOT result in commercial success. After you've done that, we can continue. Shit or get off the pot. I poison the well? Have a read over our posts and see how many times I got personal compared to you. And then think about what you said about ad-hominems. I'm touched you remembered me though. See ya.
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Post by ricardogce on Sept 22, 2019 14:49:58 GMT -5
Getting personal is perfectly fine if you're being truthful. I don't manipulate or lie, so I'm perfectly fine calling a spade a spade. People like you cannot stand not having the last word, so I'm sure we'll be speaking again.
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