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Post by andymorris on May 10, 2015 12:00:27 GMT -5
The day Noel stops appeasing traditional Oasis fans who think anything other than a guitar on a song is 'fookin weird' is the day Noel gives us something really interesting to listen to. I couldn't give a fuck about songs like Lock All The Doors - which are Oasis Lite, gives us more Right Stuff moments. Noel's not dong it for the Oasis fans he's doing it for his bank balance and to remain mainstream Sadly, i think so too. The new record is good, not earth shattering, but hardly adventurous
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Post by andymorris on May 11, 2015 5:15:58 GMT -5
Seems like it's pointed me Mossy, so: to be clear, i dont defend Noel no matter what. If he indeed stole songs, or if the AA think he did, no matter what i think of their music, they should sue and not just rant about it for months on facebook. Seem pointless to me to whine about the medias and how they wonderful work was stolen if they dont take legal action and THEN, say they'd happily work with Noel again. Ì mean, WTF.
They deserve to have songwriting credits if they wrote Mexican and the Right stuff... let's be clear about that.
dont matter the lawyers, and how good they are, if they have proof, eg recordings with new elements (lyrics, melodies, not just arrangements) compared to noel's demos, then go for it, and they will win, and it'll be settled...
As for Noel stealing, it's all weird: he's more than collaborated with the Chemical bros in the past, with two huge singles (setting sun and let forever be) and everyone was happy, although the songs were vastly different from the initial demos.
As someone said before, maybe that was you mossy, and i guess that applies to the Real people situation too, we dont know who creates what in the studio, but when someone comes with a fully formed demo to be recorded, it's only production credits... The last example being Stephen Street arranging Blur's Magic Whip. They re-recorded with Coxon in the studio, a lot, and Street didn't ask for writing credits.
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Post by mossy on May 11, 2015 7:55:15 GMT -5
Seems like it's pointed me Mossy, so: to be clear, i dont defend Noel no matter what. If he indeed stole songs, or if the AA think he did, no matter what i think of their music, they should sue and not just rant about it for months on facebook. Seem pointless to me to whine about the medias and how they wonderful work was stolen if they dont take legal action and THEN, say they'd happily work with Noel again. Ì mean, WTF. They deserve to have songwriting credits if they wrote Mexican and the Right stuff... let's be clear about that. dont matter the lawyers, and how good they are, if they have proof, eg recordings with new elements (lyrics, melodies, not just arrangements) compared to noel's demos, then go for it, and they will win, and it'll be settled... As for Noel stealing, it's all weird: he's more than collaborated with the Chemical bros in the past, with two huge singles (setting sun and let forever be) and everyone was happy, although the songs were vastly different from the initial demos. As someone said before, maybe that was you mossy, and i guess that applies to the Real people situation too, we dont know who creates what in the studio, but when someone comes with a fully formed demo to be recorded, it's only production credits... The last example being Stephen Street arranging Blur's Magic Whip. They re-recorded with Coxon in the studio, a lot, and Street didn't ask for writing credits. Yo, I agree with you in struggling to believe both Noel and AA considered working together again after their first collaboration went sour! I think part of the reason the AA are just bitching to the press and not sueing is because their case isn't as clear cut as with the Real People where Noel lifted from songs which had already been released which is very easy to prove. If the songs the AA believe they deserve credit on came from studio jams it's much more dificult to prove in court unless you had a video camera recording every moment of every session! Plus even if they are 100% in the right they are not guaranteed a win as they won't be able to afford to hire lawyers as good as Noel's. Finally, they're quite independent and not that money-orientated from what I can tell - they probably can't be arsed with the trauma of a court case and would probably prefer to spend their time cracking on with making music. I agree with you 100% if Noel came in with a compete demo and the AA just tarted it up they don't deserve a writing credit. But their main complaint seems to be about songs such as The Right Stuff which were written in the studio and not previously demoed by Noel. Peace.
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Post by shinpad on May 11, 2015 14:21:49 GMT -5
Does he really think The Mexican is "far out" ? Really... As for the rest, i suppose, if true, kinda sad yeah. But is it actually true ? Seems like he thinks he's more than a producer when in fact, what he describes kinda is... Seems like it's, as he describes, a matter of point of view about who comes up with what. The description he gives makes me want to hear it, but the way he shits on "pop" music Noel Gallagher makes is kinda weird too. A beautiful tune is a beautiful tune, psychedelic or just plain acoustic. As far as we know, Noel can write some (and sometimes steal bits), this guy cant. What would you call "writing backing tracks" that then have lyrics put to them? Sure sounds like a co-writer of those tracks to me. And I don't think he's saying The Mexican or The Right Stuff are objectively far out - but that they're "far out" for a Noel Gallagher album. I took it to mean they wouldn't normally be considered far out but that for Noel they were and for Noel to put them on the album was "far out" sounding compared to his typical stuff. I could be reading that wrong, of course.
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Post by defmaybe00 on May 11, 2015 14:25:36 GMT -5
Does he really think The Mexican is "far out" ? Really... As for the rest, i suppose, if true, kinda sad yeah. But is it actually true ? Seems like he thinks he's more than a producer when in fact, what he describes kinda is... Seems like it's, as he describes, a matter of point of view about who comes up with what. The description he gives makes me want to hear it, but the way he shits on "pop" music Noel Gallagher makes is kinda weird too. A beautiful tune is a beautiful tune, psychedelic or just plain acoustic. As far as we know, Noel can write some (and sometimes steal bits), this guy cant. What would you call "writing backing tracks" that then have lyrics put to them? Sure sounds like a co-writer of those tracks to me. And I don't think he's saying The Mexican or The Right Stuff are objectively far out - but that they're "far out" for a Noel Gallagher album. I took it to mean they wouldn't normally be considered far out but that for Noel they were and for Noel to put them on the album was "far out" sounding compared to his typical stuff. I could be reading that wrong, of course. I think Noel wrote the melody too...I might be wrong as I wasn't there obviously The Mexican isn't "far out" even for Noel,and he never claimed it was,The Right Stuff on the other hand...
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Post by Zorro On Donuts on May 11, 2015 14:26:23 GMT -5
The album probably WASN'T good enough. If he wanted to take some of the highlights from those sessions and use them elsewhere, his choice. I love The Right Stuff, but if the whole album was like that it'd be a bit much. I encourage Noel to take some chances, but there's a right away about doing it.
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Post by jaq515 on May 11, 2015 14:36:29 GMT -5
What would you call "writing backing tracks" that then have lyrics put to them? Sure sounds like a co-writer of those tracks to me. And I don't think he's saying The Mexican or The Right Stuff are objectively far out - but that they're "far out" for a Noel Gallagher album. I took it to mean they wouldn't normally be considered far out but that for Noel they were and for Noel to put them on the album was "far out" sounding compared to his typical stuff. I could be reading that wrong, of course. I think Noel wrote the melody too...I might be wrong as I wasn't there obviously The Mexican isn't "far out" even for Noel,and he never claimed it was,The Right Stuff on the other hand... Exactly and In that interview the AA don't say the mexican is far out.. they say the right stuff is being considered out side of his comfort zone, they say he cherry picked from them and the mexican was something they did backing track etc for.
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Post by spud on May 11, 2015 14:43:19 GMT -5
I genuinely thought The Right Stuff and The Mexican were the best songs on the album before I even knew about this AA involvement. Says a lot.
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Post by Manualex on May 11, 2015 15:01:21 GMT -5
I genuinely thought The Right Stuff and The Mexican were the best songs on the album before I even knew about this AA involvement. Says a lot. The right stuff, yeah. The Mexican? Nah.
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Post by andymorris on May 12, 2015 2:25:02 GMT -5
I don't think The Mexican is that far out for Noel actually. I mean, what's so far out about it? I dont even think the Right Stuff is far out tbh.
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Post by mossy on May 12, 2015 5:23:31 GMT -5
“Supersonic was the first thing I ever recorded and The Right Stuff is the last thing I recorded, and I like that. The journey in between has been f**king amazing as well. My songwriting is hopefully still going somewhere.” - Noely (y'all know me, the same old) G
“The Right Stuff, although it’s as far removed from Supersonic as you’re ever gonna get, it still sounds like me to me." - Noely (hail to the chief) G
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Post by Zorro On Donuts on May 12, 2015 19:01:19 GMT -5
I'm all for Noel trying some new stuff, but they would have ruined all his great songs.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 18:05:50 GMT -5
Masters still exist... (Gaz's Facebook)
Gaz Cobain Same old same old ... Repeat the simplest rebuttal possible requiring zero depth , as few words as possible ,zero personal enquiry or the answering of any awkward questions .... 'Shit ' said the monkey ..... 'FOR starters Noel how can it be 'shit ' when we wrote new tracks for you ( beyond the call of duty ) that form part of your new album ? 'Shit ' seems a very inappropriate word ....., 'thanks ' maybe ?'
By the way the irony is NOT lost on me that I'm being backed into a corner where I'm actually protesting that a NOEL GALLAGHER album ISN'T shit ! That is priceless !
I will deal with some of those awkward questions anon Never gonna have the last word in this though ... The guy has the media in his palm .... Hundreds of opportunities every week / day to repeat the 'shit mantra '...... Me on FB with a coupla opportunistic journalists turning footnotes to unrelated conversations into articles pretending to be the 'full story 'for publications I never even knew they worked for ! Couldn't make it up ... I had one chance to get our side right it appears ....
' MISS ! MISS !... Noel destroyed my picture miss !' Boo hoo '
' NOW now Noel I've told you before about resolving your frustration at NOT being able to answer challenging questions by destroying things and hoping they go away I Haven't I ? ! '
..,how did my voice ( and other things ) end up on his new album ? If he destroyed masters ? Hmm ... We are dealing with a man here who thinks a cd is a master so evidently the 'worlds quietest cd ' has got even quieter and is now hiding .....
Don't worry Noel I got them all including multitracks for all your solo albums including Chasing Yesterday ... How the hell we were remixing his latest 'opus ' when we're so 'shit' is beyond me unless ..... He realized exactly the value he was getting/ could get ...and expected us to join the suffering masochists that hang around him , contributing without credit ( like the 11 musicians ( mostly friends of mine ( sorry again guys ! ) but even a couple of Noels friends he brought in ( I say 'friends' but it was me who rang them personally to explain and apologize )who's credits mysteriously disappeared from the sleeve of DREAM ON / SHOOT A HOLE ( didn't quite fit the picture of solo career maybe ) DESPITE us delivering them months in advance of the deadline for our sleeve art credits ?) The dissolution of that particular job ( free rein to remix an alternative CHASING YESTERDAY all agreed , contracts drawn up, ready to sign ) was us asking 'awkward' questions about' the right stuff 'and 'the MEXICAN ' in terms our writing credits . Seeing as our CHASING YESTERDAY would have included us finalizing our original versions of both songs ( now he's seen benefit to actually rounding off his lyrics / song rather than leave us with stuff we couldn't finish without him there which also partially fucked our first album ( y'know the 'shit ' one smile emoticon ( imagine knowing the album needed an extra dimension - providing it with months of extra writing ( unpaid cos not part of contract ) him dragging his feet - further fucking the album cos the furthest out stuff was half finished ( while he crows about how FAR OUT it is repeatedly in the press )and then stealing them later for next album ! How you feelin ?? Can you imagine us fighting over publishing on those 2 tracks while at the same time our versions of both are loud and proud in the public eyes and ears ( on our alternative CHASING YESTERDAY )........with the majority acknowledging our 'MEXICAN' ( the original we wrote for 6 months before choosing our moment to cajole him In ) shat all over his sub quo -oasis dirge... No no ...cant have that !!!
Drop remix album .... Force them into paying huge legal costs and proclaim the album 'shit 'from now on ..... Simples ..... Hard nosed wankers ...
I think from now on I tell stories cos they'll be entertaining and tell their own truth ..,,, might have to dig up the odd text too smile emoticon
As you might be beginning to see ... He spouts 'shit ' album focusses everyone on ' was it good OR was it shit ' pantomime black and white world- all very simple while we're left with the complexity ... The reality to resolve .... It's ok ... I handle complexity well
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on May 14, 2015 18:45:56 GMT -5
This is an interesting one, which I think no one has posted yet... Feels like Gaz is stepping up the pace. Gaz rebuffing Liam's words on Noel's solo album being a somewhat secretive affair...?
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on May 14, 2015 19:07:36 GMT -5
Lots of interesting stuff here. *Cough* asimarx
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on May 14, 2015 19:49:52 GMT -5
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Post by matt on May 14, 2015 20:00:13 GMT -5
This is an interesting one, which I think no one has posted yet... Feels like Gaz is stepping up the pace. Gaz rebuffing Liam's words on Noel's solo album being a somewhat secretive affair...?The rest of Oasis - apart from Noel - seemed pretty open to a new producer? Yet Noel persisted in having Dullard Sardy on board? Fair play to Liam, Andy and Gem - any suggestion that Noel was "held back" is just Noel himself covering his tracks for being boring and unambitious! More plot twists than an M Night Shamalamadingdong film. Perhaps we've just got to come to the conclusion that Noel will forever remain in his comfort zone, and ultimately, be unexciting from this day on.
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Post by matt on May 14, 2015 20:13:17 GMT -5
This is an interesting one, which I think no one has posted yet... Feels like Gaz is stepping up the pace. Gaz rebuffing Liam's words on Noel's solo album being a somewhat secretive affair...?How can EVERYONE in the world not realise that Oasis had become boring fuds apart from Noel? "Under-utilised" is certainly the right term for them.... Boring guitars, rehashed songs, DAVE SARDY... Christ!
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on May 14, 2015 20:20:57 GMT -5
This is an interesting one, which I think no one has posted yet... Feels like Gaz is stepping up the pace. Gaz rebuffing Liam's words on Noel's solo album being a somewhat secretive affair...?How can EVERYONE in the world not realise that Oasis had become boring fuds apart from Noel? "Under-utilised" is certainly the right term for them.... Boring guitars, rehashed songs, DAVE SARDY... Christ! I have mixed opinions on whether they were "under-utilised", 'Different Gear Still Speeding', no? However Andy Bell really should have had a different roll within the band (Beady Eye too). 'Turn Up The Sun' is great of course, but Andy should have been the experimental guy, the texture guy. Maybe people will disagree with this but Andy should have been producing more stuff in the vein of 'Grapefruit' and getting some kind of Liam vocal on top, i.e. Death In Vegas/Prodigy. Maybe it'd be shit, but people couldn't complain that the band were backwards facing.
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Post by carryusall on May 14, 2015 20:27:34 GMT -5
How can EVERYONE in the world not realise that Oasis had become boring fuds apart from Noel? "Under-utilised" is certainly the right term for them.... Boring guitars, rehashed songs, DAVE SARDY... Christ! I have mixed opinions on whether they were "under-utilised", 'Different Gear Still Speeding', no? However Andy Bell really should have had a different roll within the band (Beady Eye too). 'Turn Up The Sun' is great of course, but Andy should have been the experimental guy, the texture guy. Maybe people will disagree with this but Andy should have been producing more stuff in the vein of 'Grapefruit' and getting some kind of Liam vocal on top, i.e. Death In Vegas/Prodigy. Maybe it'd be shit, but people couldn't complain that the band were backwards facing. I largely agree with that, he was definitely trying too hard to write Oasis songs. But he knows his way around a tune, Inreckon if he hadn't been trying to write songs that sounded like Oasis, he could have made big songwriting contributions. Would have loved to see stuff like grapefruit with Liam vox tho, good shout
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on May 14, 2015 20:34:38 GMT -5
I have mixed opinions on whether they were "under-utilised", 'Different Gear Still Speeding', no? However Andy Bell really should have had a different roll within the band (Beady Eye too). 'Turn Up The Sun' is great of course, but Andy should have been the experimental guy, the texture guy. Maybe people will disagree with this but Andy should have been producing more stuff in the vein of 'Grapefruit' and getting some kind of Liam vocal on top, i.e. Death In Vegas/Prodigy. Maybe it'd be shit, but people couldn't complain that the band were backwards facing. I largely agree with that, he was definitely trying too hard to write Oasis songs. But he knows his way around a tune, Inreckon if he hadn't been trying to write songs that sounded like Oasis, he could have made big songwriting contributions. Would have loved to see stuff like grapefruit with Liam vox tho, good shout It's weird, you'd have though Noel, Mr. Acid House, Mr. Setting Sun, would have been pushing for this, but I guess not. He should see it as a modern take on their earlier sound, 'Columbia'/'Better Let You Know'/'Snakebite'...
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Post by matt on May 14, 2015 20:50:37 GMT -5
How can EVERYONE in the world not realise that Oasis had become boring fuds apart from Noel? "Under-utilised" is certainly the right term for them.... Boring guitars, rehashed songs, DAVE SARDY... Christ! I have mixed opinions on whether they were "under-utilised", 'Different Gear Still Speeding', no? However Andy Bell really should have had a different roll within the band (Beady Eye too). 'Turn Up The Sun' is great of course, but Andy should have been the experimental guy, the texture guy. Maybe people will disagree with this but Andy should have been producing more stuff in the vein of 'Grapefruit' and getting some kind of Liam vocal on top, i.e. Death In Vegas/Prodigy. Maybe it'd be shit, but people couldn't complain that the band were backwards facing. Andy Bell is a very versatile songwriter - there's that Soundcloud mix of some collage he did recently? Can't remember its name, but there was a lot of texture and sonic expansion there that I would dearly love to hear Liam's voice on. The sad thing about Beady Eye is they had all the tools at their disposal to be something really worthwhile I think. Fair enough, most people here really enjoy them and I can't take that away, but I mean worthwhile as something that will get non-Oasis fans to sit up and listen. A bit like how New Order or Gorillaz could attract more than just Joy Division and Blur fans.
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Post by asimarx on May 16, 2015 18:11:32 GMT -5
Lots of interesting stuff here. *Cough* asimarx Thank the lord you were able to copy and post Gaz' ramblings. Some neat information on the actual recording sessions he's offering, I'm wondering why he deleted them, too - did Ignition intervene? Did he come down after all? I can't help but feel a bit sorry for him/the whole AA collective. I've managed to work my way through what has been said and written in the press about those sessions since the first announcement, this afternoon. Will try to post a short recording sessions summary tomorrow, as I think it's becoming more and more confusing...
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on May 16, 2015 18:20:14 GMT -5
Lots of interesting stuff here. *Cough* asimarx Thank the lord you were able to copy and post Gaz' ramblings. Some neat information on the actual recording sessions he's offering, I'm wondering why he deleted them, too - did Ignition intervene? Did he come down after all? I can't help but feel a bit sorry for him/the whole AA collective. I've managed to work my way through what has been said and written in the press about those sessions since the first announcement, this afternoon. Will try to post a short recording sessions summary tomorrow, as I think it's becoming more and more confusing... Great to hear!
I've no idea why the posts were deleted. Someone asked him on Facebook without response.
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Post by Who Is Andy Bell? on May 16, 2015 22:31:48 GMT -5
Can someone tell me if I've got this straight, because it's all getting kinda confusing
-when Noel announced he had 2 albums ready to be released in 2011, he really only had 2 versions of the same album. The same 10 tracks that were produced by Sardy for HFB, were also produced by AA, with the same tracklisting. These were all (?) tracks that Noel brought to the table that were Oasis leftovers (for lack of a better word) and none of them came from the AA sessions.
-the whole time that AA were producing Noel's album (which they expected to be his debut solo album until July 2011), Noel was secretly producing another version of the album with Sardy, which is what ended up being released instead. This would seem to point that Noel originally intended for AA to produce his debut album, but got cold feet and decided to turn to Sardy would produce an Oasis-sounding album that he felt safe with.
-some songs on the new album (The Mexican, The Right Stuff and Freaky Teeth?) were a direct result of the AA sessions and Gaz contends that he deserves songwriting credit on them as much as Noel.
-not only is there another version of HFB (the AA version) out there, but there is also a remix album of Chasing Yesterday songs which includes the original AA versions of The Mexican and The Right Stuff.
Do I have this more or less correct? If the first part is true, I'm actually suddenly kinda excited to hear the AA album just for the potential that the production is better than Sardy's. They seem to imply that the big songs left over from the Oasis days (If I Had a Gun, Everybody's on the Run, Stop the Clocks and Record Machine I'd guess) are great songs and they did little to them other than add intros and outros.
It also really makes me wonder. In the summer of 2011 Noel kept going on about all these random instruments on HFB (the electric kettle!) and how it was so different. I wonder how many of these ideas he simply took from the AA versions.
EDIT: Also forgot to add, the way that Noel took ideas from The Real People and the AA while completely ignoring their impact (particularly in the media, he never mentioned AA once in discussing The Right Stuff or The Mexican in the lead-up to release I don't think), really bothers me.
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