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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 13:07:36 GMT -5
The prequels sucked. Why?: Jar Jar. Midichlorians. The most badass villain being a whiny emo. Basically, if you haven't seen Red Letter Media's reviews of the prequels, you need to change that, stat. They're 150% on point, hilarious and more entertaining than the prequels combined. By the way, I hope that Disney getting the rights to the Star Wars franchise leads to them rereleasing the original versions. Good lord I hope that happens. It's good that Jar Jar really only had a true role in the first prequel. In the rest he is background and has a maybe combine scene time of about 3 minutes. I never had a problem with midichlorians. It was just putting a mysterious label to something already mysterious. Pointless, but otherwise irellevent. It's hardly a convincing reason to criticize an entire movie.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 13:12:39 GMT -5
That is a possibility indeed. But I obviously don't agree.
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Post by Sternumman on May 1, 2014 13:14:36 GMT -5
So because we know he turns into Vader its ok his "jump off the cliff" happens in the last act of the last movie. He's a hero but wants to save his wife from dying. So he kills Windu and then the emperor says. "I dont know how to save her we will find out together go kill some little kids and the rest of the jedi" Im paraphrasing. Doesnt have to do with nostalgia. My kid hates the prequels and likes the originals. It appears he jumped off a cliff. He didn't really. This is because what was important wasn't focused on. His late training, his separation from his mother. His prophetic dreams. His murder of the sand people. His relationship with Padme. And all the while, the chancellor filling his head with hate and slowly, but effectively walking Anakin closer to the dark side for over 10+ years. All this sort of fell into the background amongst everything else. Palpatine lies and manipulates to get what he wants, for instance, allowing himself to get zapped and for Windu to strike him down. Palpatine was in full control in that moment, Windu didn't beat him. Palpatine was using that moment to force Anakin to make a choice. From the moment Anakin attacked Windu, Anakin was gone. He belonged to Palpatine, no matter if Palpatine had the actual power to save Padme or not. Your kid may not like the originals, but this could be due to indoctrination. Regarding Star Wars, you seem to have no problem showing your hate and disgust for the prequels, as noted by your posts above. You also mocked me for liking them. That sort of bias will rub off on your children, sadly. You said leap off the cliff in a previous post. All good parents should indoctrinate their kids. Its why she likes Oasis too.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 13:18:51 GMT -5
In the prequels, plot lines are rushed at times, the main point is to follow Anakin's decent into darkness, which wasn't so much of a descent, but rather a leap off a cliff. They could have focused more around this, but instead gave time to other characters. This is certainly a flaw within the prequels. But it's minor considering we already knew what Anakin would become. This shows Anakins "jump off the cliff" to the darside in the last act of the last movie and why its ridiculous. Cued for the explanation but you should watch the whole thing Start at the 51 minute mark if it doesnt cue up correctly I have spent enough of my time watching these types of videos criticizing the prequels. Chances are, I have already seen this very one. I'm interested in your arguments, something I can actually respond to directly. I would hope that you're able to support the opinion you hold without the aid of someone else.
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Post by Sternumman on May 1, 2014 13:21:15 GMT -5
Because the prequels are just horrible movies made to sell toys. It's the reason jedi isnt as good as the other originals too. Lucas added the ewoks to sell more shit. Are the originals a little dated? Yes but there is nothing enjoyable about the prequels. They turned one of the best movie villains of all time into a bratty teenager. Made the Jedis into a bunch of buffoons. Made giant plot holes for the original trilogy. Obi Wan aged forty years in twenty. The CGI characters look horrible. Racial stereotypes. Lucas thinks hes funny but his attempt at humor is cringe worthy (Jar Jar, putting C3PO's head on a droid, etc). heres a short video to show you why they are horrible taken from an hour and 30 minute review of AOTC. The correct order is Empire Star Wars-I dont know what a new hope is Jedi Sith Clones Phantom I am well aware of all the arguments against the prequels. I often find these arguments hypocritical and incredibly biased. The arguments usually stem from an emotional response, not an honest evaluation of the mechanics of both trilogies. "Yes but there is nothing enjoyable about the prequels." Interesting claim. I enjoy them as do millions of others. We certainly don't enjoy them just for the hell of it. I over exagerated. I dont enjoy them as a whole but i do like the Darth Maul fight" They turned one of the best movie villains of all time into a bratty teenager. " As opposed to what? Vader was always an intelligent adult then? Teenagers tend to be bratty, it's the hormones. And Anakin didn't exactly have an easy life. He was a menacing presence. Now you know its some easily manipulated guy that got suckered into turning to the darkside"Made the Jedis into a bunch of buffoons." Bufoons how? Not knowing the entire time that a sith lord was pulling every string around them for years"Made giant plot holes for the original trilogy. Obi Wan aged forty years in twenty." Films aren't allowed to have plot holes then? How many films can you name that are perfect without any holes? Not many, not even the Original Trilogy can claim that. Not saying that but you shouldnt make more for movies that are 30 years old
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 13:32:59 GMT -5
It appears he jumped off a cliff. He didn't really. This is because what was important wasn't focused on. His late training, his separation from his mother. His prophetic dreams. His murder of the sand people. His relationship with Padme. And all the while, the chancellor filling his head with hate and slowly, but effectively walking Anakin closer to the dark side for over 10+ years. All this sort of fell into the background amongst everything else. Palpatine lies and manipulates to get what he wants, for instance, allowing himself to get zapped and for Windu to strike him down. Palpatine was in full control in that moment, Windu didn't beat him. Palpatine was using that moment to force Anakin to make a choice. From the moment Anakin attacked Windu, Anakin was gone. He belonged to Palpatine, no matter if Palpatine had the actual power to save Padme or not. Your kid may not like the originals, but this could be due to indoctrination. Regarding Star Wars, you seem to have no problem showing your hate and disgust for the prequels, as noted by your posts above. You also mocked me for liking them. That sort of bias will rub off on your children, sadly. You said leap off the cliff in a previous post. All good parents should indoctrinate their kids. Its why she likes Oasis too. I did say that, because that is how it appears to an average viewer. It's a flaw in the prequels. It shouldn't have existed in the background, it should have been the main focus, the forefront of every prequel. It only was in Revenge of the Sith, by which time, it was too late, because he was changing into Vader. Good parents shouldn't indoctrinate their kids on every subject. But that wasn't my point. I was questioning whether your kid formed that opinion on her own, or because that's your opinion? That does make a difference. It's the difference between a parrot and a human being. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, that's just what indoctrination does to children. Hell, it even does it to grown adults. Popular cultures exerts a lot of peer pressure on everyone.
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Post by Sternumman on May 1, 2014 13:38:48 GMT -5
This shows Anakins "jump off the cliff" to the darside in the last act of the last movie and why its ridiculous. Cued for the explanation but you should watch the whole thing Start at the 51 minute mark if it doesnt cue up correctly I have spent enough of my time watching these types of videos criticizing the prequels. Chances are, I have already seen this very one. I'm interested in your arguments, something I can actually respond to directly. I would hope that you're able to support the opinion you hold without the aid of someone else. It's just easier to watch a five minute clip than type everything out. If you like the prequels good for you. I own them all. I saw each of them in the theater. The thing is George Lucas isnt a good film maker. He's directed one great movie in his life. The original Star Wars. The reason Empire is so much better? He didnt direct it or write the screen play. He had some good ideas. He created Indiana Jones too but the first three movies are great because Speilberg directed them and Lucas didnt write the sceenplay. He doesnt know how to edit himself now and no one is brave enough to tell him when to stop. Thats why he has ruined the originals too with the special editions. Greedo shooting first, young Anakin at the end of Jedi, the Vader NOOOOOO in Jedi, cgi animals, etc.
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Post by jaq515 on May 1, 2014 13:43:22 GMT -5
JJ is a good film maker and he'll defo raise the bar for the sequels too
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Post by Sternumman on May 1, 2014 13:43:51 GMT -5
You said leap off the cliff in a previous post. All good parents should indoctrinate their kids. Its why she likes Oasis too. I did say that, because that is how it appears to an average viewer. It's a flaw in the prequels. It shouldn't have existed in the background, it should have been the main focus, the forefront of every prequel. It only was in Revenge of the Sith, by which time, it was too late, because he was changing into Vader. Good parents shouldn't indoctrinate their kids on every subject. But that wasn't my point. I was questioning whether your kid formed that opinion on her own, or because that's your opinion? That does make a difference. It's the difference between a parrot and a human being. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, that's just what indoctrination does to children. Hell, it even does it to grown adults. Popular cultures exerts a lot of peer pressure on everyone. I never said I was a good parent. Has she heard me talk negatively about the prequels before she saw them? I'm sure she has but she has different opinions on other things I dont like. I dont think my views on the films have any bearings on her opinions on them but I could be wrong.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 13:48:07 GMT -5
I am well aware of all the arguments against the prequels. I often find these arguments hypocritical and incredibly biased. The arguments usually stem from an emotional response, not an honest evaluation of the mechanics of both trilogies. "Yes but there is nothing enjoyable about the prequels." Interesting claim. I enjoy them as do millions of others. We certainly don't enjoy them just for the hell of it. I over exagerated. I dont enjoy them as a whole but i do like the Darth Maul fight" They turned one of the best movie villains of all time into a bratty teenager. " As opposed to what? Vader was always an intelligent adult then? Teenagers tend to be bratty, it's the hormones. And Anakin didn't exactly have an easy life. He was a menacing presence. Now you know its some easily manipulated guy that got suckered into turning to the darkside"Made the Jedis into a bunch of buffoons." Bufoons how? Not knowing the entire time that a sith lord was pulling every string around them for years"Made giant plot holes for the original trilogy. Obi Wan aged forty years in twenty." Films aren't allowed to have plot holes then? How many films can you name that are perfect without any holes? Not many, not even the Original Trilogy can claim that. Not saying that but you shouldnt make more for movies that are 30 years old "I over exagerated. I dont enjoy them as a whole but i do like the Darth Maul fight"Okay, well we agree then on The Phantom Menace. That's probably the only good part in the entire movie aside from some Neeson scenes. "He was a menacing presence. Now you know its some easily manipulated guy that got suckered into turning to the darkside"Why did you expect differently? Obi-Wan in the original trilogy had already briefly explain how Anakin was manipulated by the dark side and turned into Vader. Not to mention, we see the Emperors manipulation tactics present in Vader during Empire Strikes Back and in the Emperor himself during Return of the Jedi. That's exactly what we got in the prequels. Palpatine is personally my favorite character of the prequels. "Not knowing the entire time that a sith lord was pulling every string around them for years"The dark side is more powerful and that plan was set in motion for hundreds of years, I think even thousands. It didn't happen over night. This was firmly established in the prequels and even briefly in the originals. It doesn't make the Jedi buffoons, it just means the Sith finally got one over on them after a thousand years of peace. When they finally realized the sith had returned, those plans were already in motion. Regardless, this should be a problem for you whether the prequel trilogy exists or not. "Not saying that but you shouldnt make more for movies that are 30 years old"Agreed. After so much time has passed, it's not going to work well to realease sequels. Society has changed, interests have changed, filmaking itself changed and it's going to strive to appeal to them more than the society of 30 years past. This causes instant rifts in popular opinion. Lucas really should have continued the films immediately. And even after just a 10 year gap, I suspect we'll encounter the same problems with the new trilogy, hopefully not.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 13:56:23 GMT -5
I have spent enough of my time watching these types of videos criticizing the prequels. Chances are, I have already seen this very one. I'm interested in your arguments, something I can actually respond to directly. I would hope that you're able to support the opinion you hold without the aid of someone else. It's just easier to watch a five minute clip than type everything out. If you like the prequels good for you. I own them all. I saw each of them in the theater. The thing is George Lucas isnt a good film maker. He's directed one great movie in his life. The original Star Wars. The reason Empire is so much better? He didnt direct it or write the screen play. He had some good ideas. He created Indiana Jones too but the first three movies are great because Speilberg directed them and Lucas didnt write the sceenplay. He doesnt know how to edit himself now and no one is brave enough to tell him when to stop. Thats why he has ruined the originals too with the special editions. Greedo shooting first, young Anakin at the end of Jedi, the Vader NOOOOOO in Jedi, cgi animals, etc. Lucas isn't a very good filmmaker, he's average, I agree. But I have my problems with Star Wars too, which is why it isn't the top of my list. Some of the edits I do like for the originals. Like replacing the green hazy Emperer with Ian McDiarmid in Empire from ROTJ and all the prequels. That was a good call. I also liked inserting Jabba into A New Hope, even though the CGI blows for Jabba, it does make things a bit smoother where Han's character is concerned.
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Post by Sternumman on May 1, 2014 14:00:12 GMT -5
"I over exagerated. I dont enjoy them as a whole but i do like the Darth Maul fight"Okay, well we agree then on The Phantom Menace. That's probably the only good part in the entire movie aside from some Neeson scenes. Woo Hoo we agree on something"He was a menacing presence. Now you know its some easily manipulated guy that got suckered into turning to the darkside"Why did you expect differently? Obi-Wan in the original trilogy had already briefly explain how Anakin was manipulated by the dark side and turned into Vader. Not to mention, we see the Emperors manipulation tactics present in Vader during Empire Strikes Back and in the Emperor himself during Return of the Jedi. That's exactly what we got in the prequels. Palpatine is personally my favorite character of the prequels. Yes, I expected differently. It's like finding out Hanibal Lecter turned into a canibal cause his mom made him eat his vegtables"Not knowing the entire time that a sith lord was pulling every string around them for years"The dark side is more powerful and that plan was set in motion for hundreds of years, I think even thousands. It didn't happen over night. This was firmly established in the prequels and even briefly in the originals. It doesn't make the Jedi buffoons, it just means the Sith finally got one over on them after a thousand years of peace. When they finally realized the sith had returned, those plans were already in motion. You are led to believe in the originals the jedi and Yoda are these powerful intelligent beings but are so easily manipulated and cant sense the force at all around palpatine and then all the other Jedis get easily gunned down by clone troopers[ [
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 14:03:10 GMT -5
I did say that, because that is how it appears to an average viewer. It's a flaw in the prequels. It shouldn't have existed in the background, it should have been the main focus, the forefront of every prequel. It only was in Revenge of the Sith, by which time, it was too late, because he was changing into Vader. Good parents shouldn't indoctrinate their kids on every subject. But that wasn't my point. I was questioning whether your kid formed that opinion on her own, or because that's your opinion? That does make a difference. It's the difference between a parrot and a human being. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, that's just what indoctrination does to children. Hell, it even does it to grown adults. Popular cultures exerts a lot of peer pressure on everyone. I never said I was a good parent. Has she heard me talk negatively about the prequels before she saw them? I'm sure she has but she has different opinions on other things I dont like. I dont think my views on the films have any bearings on her opinions on them but I could be wrong. Indoctrination is impossible to avoid entirely, so don't feel bad. I'm just saying it isn't necessarily a strong argument to use to support your position, because indoctrination could be and probably is a factor in their opinion, especially if they are younger and not yet prone to questioning opinions.
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Post by Sternumman on May 1, 2014 14:05:56 GMT -5
It's just easier to watch a five minute clip than type everything out. If you like the prequels good for you. I own them all. I saw each of them in the theater. The thing is George Lucas isnt a good film maker. He's directed one great movie in his life. The original Star Wars. The reason Empire is so much better? He didnt direct it or write the screen play. He had some good ideas. He created Indiana Jones too but the first three movies are great because Speilberg directed them and Lucas didnt write the sceenplay. He doesnt know how to edit himself now and no one is brave enough to tell him when to stop. Thats why he has ruined the originals too with the special editions. Greedo shooting first, young Anakin at the end of Jedi, the Vader NOOOOOO in Jedi, cgi animals, etc. Lucas isn't a very good filmmaker, he's average, I agree. But I have my problems with Star Wars too, which is why it isn't the top of my list. Some of the edits I do like for the originals. Like replacing the green hazy Emperer with Ian McDiarmid in Empire from ROTJ and all the prequels. That was a good call. I also liked inserting Jabba into A New Hope, even though the CGI blows for Jabba, it does make things a bit smoother where Han's character is concerned. Some of the new special effects work but most of it doesnt. I think Empire looks cleaner and dont have any complaints that I remember about the changes he made in that film. I dont think the Jabba seen adds anything. We know why Hans on the run through the exposition. I dont hate it but he CGI is ridiculous and to have Han step on his tail is complete nonsense.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 14:17:33 GMT -5
"I over exagerated. I dont enjoy them as a whole but i do like the Darth Maul fight"Okay, well we agree then on The Phantom Menace. That's probably the only good part in the entire movie aside from some Neeson scenes. Woo Hoo we agree on something"He was a menacing presence. Now you know its some easily manipulated guy that got suckered into turning to the darkside"Why did you expect differently? Obi-Wan in the original trilogy had already briefly explain how Anakin was manipulated by the dark side and turned into Vader. Not to mention, we see the Emperors manipulation tactics present in Vader during Empire Strikes Back and in the Emperor himself during Return of the Jedi. That's exactly what we got in the prequels. Palpatine is personally my favorite character of the prequels. Yes, I expected differently. It's like finding out Hanibal Lecter turned into a canibal cause his mom made him eat his vegtables"Not knowing the entire time that a sith lord was pulling every string around them for years"The dark side is more powerful and that plan was set in motion for hundreds of years, I think even thousands. It didn't happen over night. This was firmly established in the prequels and even briefly in the originals. It doesn't make the Jedi buffoons, it just means the Sith finally got one over on them after a thousand years of peace. When they finally realized the sith had returned, those plans were already in motion. You are led to believe in the originals the jedi and Yoda are these powerful intelligent beings but are so easily manipulated and cant sense the force at all around palpatine and then all the other Jedis get easily gunned down by clone troopers[
"Yes, I expected differently. It's like finding out Hanibal Lecter turned into a canibal cause his mom made him eat his vegtables"Okay, well, I'm not sure about Hannibal, but it should have been no surprise in the prequels. Because the prequels had been laid out in exposition within the originals. Of course, Anakins decent was nothing short of dramatic and expected. The stimulus that drove him to the dark side was very much appropriate, but you might have missed it if you weren't watching closely, which is the flaw. It should have been obvious to the viewer, not required to pick up on after more than one viewing. You are led to believe in the originals the jedi and Yoda are these powerful intelligent beings but are so easily manipulated and cant sense the force at all around palpatine and then all the other Jedis get easily gunned down by clone troopers. Yeah, that demonstrates the immense power of the dark side. But lets ignore the prequels, imagine they don't exist. If Yoda and Obi-Wan are so intelligent and powerful, why were the Jedi wiped out? Why were they in hiding? Why and how did the Empire over throw them? If you consider this a problem and don't accept the explanation that the dark side clouded their senses, you have this very issue starting within the original trilogy, A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. So why push the blame onto the prequels when the problem originated with the original trilogy?
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 1, 2014 14:23:19 GMT -5
Lucas isn't a very good filmmaker, he's average, I agree. But I have my problems with Star Wars too, which is why it isn't the top of my list. Some of the edits I do like for the originals. Like replacing the green hazy Emperer with Ian McDiarmid in Empire from ROTJ and all the prequels. That was a good call. I also liked inserting Jabba into A New Hope, even though the CGI blows for Jabba, it does make things a bit smoother where Han's character is concerned. Some of the new special effects work but most of it doesnt. I think Empire looks cleaner and dont have any complaints that I remember about the changes he made in that film. I dont think the Jabba seen adds anything. We know why Hans on the run through the exposition. I dont hate it but he CGI is ridiculous and to have Han step on his tail is complete nonsense. True, but exposition is something writers should avoid when able. If they had this scene filmed and lying around, they might as well put it in and show it rather than just tell it. I think the CGI is good, more for AOTC and ROTS, but the budget for the films disturb me. I think for that much money, it could have been sharpened and detailed a bit more. Yoda looks great for instance, but the green screen sets and minor alien characters were lacking sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2014 15:09:28 GMT -5
Darth Maul was cool as fuck, we can all agree on that!
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Post by jaq515 on May 1, 2014 15:14:27 GMT -5
Darth Maul was cool as fuck, we can all agree on that! And he was peter serafinowicz who'd off ever thought that?! But yes a double ender is always the best
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Post by Lennon2217 on May 2, 2014 8:10:27 GMT -5
Darth Maul was cool as fuck, we can all agree on that! Maul was cool. The less is more approach with that character really worked. Keep some mystery going. However, his screen time might have been too brief. Still part of the best lightsaber battle in the sagas history.
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Post by Sternumman on May 3, 2014 7:27:50 GMT -5
Darth Maul was cool as fuck, we can all agree on that! Maul was cool. The less is more approach with that character really worked. Keep some mystery going. However, his screen time might have been too brief. Still part of the best lightsaber battle in the sagas history. The funny thing about that lightsaber battle is Obi Wan is in the hole which gives Maul the high ground. So he flips over him and cuts him in half. During Sith Obi Wan has the high ground and tells Anakin don't try anything I've got the high ground. I'm so glad Lucas sold Star Wars. Disney has shown success with the Marvel I'm sure they don't want to fuck up Star Wars.
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Post by Sternumman on May 3, 2014 7:29:46 GMT -5
Maul was cool. The less is more approach with that character really worked. Keep some mystery going. However, his screen time might have been too brief. Still part of the best lightsaber battle in the sagas history. The mystery of Maul definitely makes him a cooler character. Just like Bobba Fett in the original trilogy. The funny thing about that lightsaber battle is Obi Wan is in the hole which gives Maul the high ground. So he flips over him and cuts him in half. During Sith Obi Wan has the high ground and tells Anakin don't try anything I've got the high ground. I'm so glad Lucas sold Star Wars. Disney has shown success with the Marvel I'm sure they don't want to fuck up Star Wars.
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Post by Lennon2217 on May 3, 2014 10:11:24 GMT -5
The mystery of Maul definitely makes him a cooler character. Just like Bobba Fett in the original trilogy. The funny thing about that lightsaber battle is Obi Wan is in the hole which gives Maul the high ground. So he flips over him and cuts him in half. During Sith Obi Wan has the high ground and tells Anakin don't try anything I've got the high ground. I'm so glad Lucas sold Star Wars. Disney has shown success with the Marvel I'm sure they don't want to fuck up Star Wars. Lucas ruined Boba Fett by making him a stupid clone from a stupid bounty hunter. I loved the mystery of him from Empire and Jedi. I didn't need a backstory. I was totally fine with just meeting him in Empire. No need for anything else.
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Post by Lennon2217 on May 3, 2014 13:07:45 GMT -5
I trust Abrams and Disney to right the ship and not compromise on the storytelling. Bringing back Lawrence Kasdan was a huge move. He wrote Empire (My favorite), Raiders of The Lost Arc, Return of The Jedi, Silverado, etc. Excellent storyteller in my opinion.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on May 4, 2014 4:09:29 GMT -5
I trust Abrams and Disney to right the ship and not compromise on the storytelling. Bringing back Lawrence Kasdan was a huge move. He wrote Empire (My favorite), Raiders of The Lost Arc, Return of The Jedi, Silverado, etc. Excellent storyteller in my opinion. Indeed, but those films were a long, long time ago and the kind of things that blew minds back then would just seem cheesy and tame nowadays after some of the things that we've seen in cinema over the years. Who says he can still come up with rad ideas for awesome scenes and plot twists now well into his sixties compared to when he was a thirty-odd year old in his pomp? I'd like to believe he still could but I'm not so sure tbh, I was more excited when they had Michael Arndt on board for it as proven, versatile writer of movies in the last 10 years.
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Post by David Spritz on May 4, 2014 5:00:26 GMT -5
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