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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 20:40:01 GMT -5
and by the way before you guys jump on me i'm registered as an independent.
i voted for obama four years ago, but this time around i voted for romney. (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.') and a few people i know did so as well... unfortunately i'm in massachusetts, one of the bluest states in the union, so my vote doesn't really matter squat.
still waiting for that 'hope and change' that was promised four years ago... now it's 'forward' ... forward to what, exactly? the people with the most joy today are those who enjoy getting government handouts. and unfortunately there's not enough working stiffs like myself to supplement all those handouts--- that's why we're in the mess we are in now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 20:41:32 GMT -5
I respect you idler. But you speak with talking points in politics it seems like, and most of the time the problem with talking points is that they're poorly researched. sorry you feel that way. but i am simply fed up.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 20:43:04 GMT -5
^ and might i add, this will probably be one of , if not the only time you will see me talking politics on this forum (as you know i usually stay clear of this section) ... that gives you an idea about how p#ssed off i am
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Post by spaneli on Nov 7, 2012 20:44:57 GMT -5
and by the way before you guys jump on me i'm registered as an independent. i voted for obama four years ago, but this time around i voted for romney. (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.') and a few people i know did so as well... unfortunately i'm in massachusetts, one of the bluest states in the union, so my vote doesn't really matter squat. still waiting for that 'hope and change' that was promised four years ago... now it's 'forward' ... forward to what, exactly? the people with the most joy today are those who enjoy getting government handouts. and unfortunately there's not enough working stiffs like myself to supplement all those handouts--- that's why we're in the mess we are in now. That statement made me lose a lot of respect for you Idler. Again, talking points. And a talking point that when researched falls apart fairly quickly and has shown to have racial undertones (I'm 100% sure you don't mean the second part. However that is a claim that has been used by many racist within this political system). My suggestion is that you actually research your claim. "That the only people who want Obama are people who want a government handout." And I'm near 100% that you would find that that's a claim that only the most fervent of ideologues have taken. And it's one that doesn't hold much water. I obviously don't think you meant that undertones that those sort of statements have been associated with. I just ask that you research that claim through independent sources.
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Post by thomaslivesforever on Nov 7, 2012 20:47:13 GMT -5
and by the way before you guys jump on me i'm registered as an independent. i voted for obama four years ago, but this time around i voted for romney. (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.') and a few people i know did so as well... unfortunately i'm in massachusetts, one of the bluest states in the union, so my vote doesn't really matter squat. still waiting for that 'hope and change' that was promised four years ago... now it's 'forward' ... forward to what, exactly? the people with the most joy today are those who enjoy getting government handouts. and unfortunately there's not enough working stiffs like myself to supplement all those handouts--- that's why we're in the mess we are in now. I always find it weird how people are always more willing to focus on the poor rather than the rich who avoid and pay little tax. The stock market went down 300 points today because they are expecting regulation soon. And so they should.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 20:51:14 GMT -5
and by the way before you guys jump on me i'm registered as an independent. i voted for obama four years ago, but this time around i voted for romney. (fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.') and a few people i know did so as well... unfortunately i'm in massachusetts, one of the bluest states in the union, so my vote doesn't really matter squat. still waiting for that 'hope and change' that was promised four years ago... now it's 'forward' ... forward to what, exactly? the people with the most joy today are those who enjoy getting government handouts. and unfortunately there's not enough working stiffs like myself to supplement all those handouts--- that's why we're in the mess we are in now. That statement made me lose a lot of respect for you Idler. Again, talking points. And a talking point that when researched falls apart fairly quickly and has shown to have racial undertones (I'm fairly sure you don't mean the second part, but that is a claim that has been used many racist within this political system). My suggestion is that you actually research your claim. That the only people who want Obama are people who want a government handout. And I'm near 100% that you would find that that's a claim that only the most fervent of ideologue have taken. And it's one that doesn't hold much water. i didn't say 'the only people'. don't twist my words. but i do personally know people who fit this mold. whether you choose to believe me or not, i really could care less. and if you lose respect for me because we disagree on an issue, then i feel sorry for you. i thought the purpose of a forum was to present different views? from now on, i am staying in the sound and vision section.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 7, 2012 20:51:51 GMT -5
^ and might i add, this will probably be one of , if not the only time you will see me talking politics on this forum (as you know i usually stay clear of this section) ... that gives you an idea about how p#ssed off i am Being fed up is natural. But remember, Reagan had high inflation and record unemployment in his first term. It was not until his second term that his Presidency took off. It took WWII to bring American out of the great depression. Both would be comparable to the current economic landscape.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 7, 2012 21:01:02 GMT -5
That statement made me lose a lot of respect for you Idler. Again, talking points. And a talking point that when researched falls apart fairly quickly and has shown to have racial undertones (I'm fairly sure you don't mean the second part, but that is a claim that has been used many racist within this political system). My suggestion is that you actually research your claim. That the only people who want Obama are people who want a government handout. And I'm near 100% that you would find that that's a claim that only the most fervent of ideologue have taken. And it's one that doesn't hold much water. i didn't say 'the only people'. don't twist my words. but i do personally know people who fit this mold. whether you choose to believe me or not, i really could care less. and if you lose respect for me because we disagree on an issue, then i feel sorry for you. i thought the purpose of a forum was to present different views? from now on, i am staying in the sound and vision section. You may have not said "only". But when you state the people with most joy, you insinuated that the reason he won was because of those people. I don't lose respect for stating an opinion. However, if someone said that their opinion was that blacks are inferior to whites I would lose respect for that person. And not say, "well it's a forum and the purpose of it is to share opinions". Obviously, that's me bringing up an exaggerated situation, but when someone brings up an opinion that has shown in the past to have racial undertones, and that for me, as person who grew up in a poor black economically deprived neighborhood and had to regularly hear what you just said (even though obviously you probably weren't specifically referring to blacks), then that gives me pause. In the end, this is a forum and everyone has different backgrounds. But with my background, when I read what you just wrote, then racial flags go up in my head. Because in the end, if you were to go in any poor minority community, not just black, that phrase would also throw up red flags. In the end, I don't know your background. You might come from a place where there's no connotation behind what you just said. People coming from different backgrounds is what makes this forum great. But in the end, backgrounds come into conflict and certain things does give one pause. So in the end, it does give me pause.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2012 21:08:44 GMT -5
i didn't say 'the only people'. don't twist my words. but i do personally know people who fit this mold. whether you choose to believe me or not, i really could care less. and if you lose respect for me because we disagree on an issue, then i feel sorry for you. i thought the purpose of a forum was to present different views? from now on, i am staying in the sound and vision section. You may have not said "only". But when you state the people with most joy, you insinuated that the reason he won was because of those people. I don't lose respect for stating an opinion. However, if someone said that their opinion was that blacks are inferior to whites I would lose respect for that person. And not say, "well it's a forum and the purpose of it is to share opinions". Obviously, that's me bringing up an exaggerated situation, but when someone brings up an opinion that has shown in the past to have racial undertones, and that for me, as person who grew up in a poor black economically deprived neighborhood and had to regularly hear what you just said (even though obviously you probably weren't specifically referring to blacks), then that gives me pause. In the end, this is a forum and everyone has different backgrounds. But with my background, when I read what you just wrote, then racial flags go up in my head. Because in the end, if you were to go in any poor minority community, not just black, that phrase would also throw up red flags. In the end, I don't know your background. You might come from a place where there's no connotation behind what you just said. People coming from different backgrounds is what makes this forum great. But in the end, backgrounds come into conflict and certain things does give one pause. So in the end, it does give me pause. wow, totally didn't see that coming. you're pulling out the race card? really??i just lost a lot of respect for you, my friend. the people i know 'who fit that mold' are all WHITE. again, you can choose to believe me or not. again, wow. i need a shower after having this conversation with you.
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Post by gdforever on Nov 7, 2012 21:12:04 GMT -5
I'm not hearing the racial motivation that you are reacting to Spaneli.
I think it's disrespectful to call racism on a political discussion when that is obviously not the intent. It's a way people shut down discussion...and you aren't that kind of person.
Accusation of serious things like that made willy-nilly like that cheapen you and the concept of racism.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 7, 2012 21:21:42 GMT -5
I like that you specifically highlighted the part where I said, "you probably weren't specifically referring to blacks".
I just pointed out that from where I come from that is the connotation and from you may come from that connotation probably doesn't hold.
If stating fact is playing the race card then okay. But I personally come frommix descent of Hispanic, white, and black and can honestly say that I detest when people bring up the "race card" and I read my post a few times before I posted to make sure that was what I wanted to post. My detestation for the "race card" comes from the fact that my father grew up in the racial south and he is so hair pin trigger that everything is the race for him. So through my life I have run away from that. And through my life I have had to walk a fine line between what I can say and what I cannot for fear that someone would pull then, "Oh, you're calling the race card".
But I stand by what I said. It's not pulling the race card. It's just explaining how different words and phrases have different connotations for different groups of people. Which is a fact of life. And I just merely tried to explain why I may have that perceived connotation from what you said.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 7, 2012 21:28:49 GMT -5
I'm not hearing the racial motivation that you are reacting to Spaneli. I think it's disrespectful to call racism on a political discussion when that is obviously not the intent. It's a way people shut down discussion...and you aren't that kind of person. Accusation of serious things like that made willy-nilly like that cheapen you and the concept of racism. I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you. If you don't believe that I know how serious racism is then, I would again respectfully disagree. As a black person, there's not one week in my life where I don't experience some form of racism. And my father grew in the deep south where many of his friends were lynched. So don't lecture me on "cheapen"ing racism. I did not accuse anything of racism. I explained why what he said may bring those type of connotations for me. I will not hold my tongue, bow my head, nor forgive my own opinion. For fear, that I may lessen my words. That is a graver mistake in my opinion and one that I will not act on.
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Post by gdforever on Nov 7, 2012 22:15:44 GMT -5
I'm not hearing the racial motivation that you are reacting to Spaneli. I think it's disrespectful to call racism on a political discussion when that is obviously not the intent. It's a way people shut down discussion...and you aren't that kind of person. Accusation of serious things like that made willy-nilly like that cheapen you and the concept of racism. I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you. If you don't believe that I know how serious racism is then, I would again respectfully disagree. As a black person, there's not one week in my life where I don't experience some form of racism. And my father grew in the deep south where many of his friends were lynched. So don't lecture me on "cheapen"ing racism. I did not accuse anything of racism. I explained why what he said may bring those type of connotations for me. I will not hold my tongue, bow my head, nor forgive my own opinion. For fear, that I may lessen my words. That is a graver mistake in my opinion and one that I will not act on. There was zero reason to bring race into it. I am not attempting to silence you. But saying that a persons comment raises "racial flag" in your head is not something that you should ever level at someone that has made zero reference to race IMO. If you knew that he wasn't referring to black people (which he wasn't and I wouldn't have even assumed) you shouldn't have brought the idea of racism into it. But saying essentially "I'm sure that you probably didn't mean black people...but other people that have said similar things were racists and that it what your comment has made me thing of" is a conversation ender. Notice the way he responded. You slapped him in the face...and he can't do anything but shut up because he's white and you are black and anything he says to defend his opinion after it has been framed by you in a context of racial motivation make it seem as if he would be speaking in defense of any opinion held by racists. Your reference that his comment having racist undertones (even to the point of saying he "probably" wasn't referring to black people...which implies a doubt of that) was a lot more blatant than any reference to a racist opinion that the people he was talking about were of any particular color. Being black doesn't give you the right to do that to another person. I'd take a step down from my holier-than-thou pedestal if I were you. Telling me that "you won't hold your tongue, or bow your head" or that ANYTHING in this thread required you to defend your race and that it would have been a "grave mistake" to have not acted on it. Give me a break. If you want to have political discourse...this kind of behavior will ensure you never get what you want
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Post by spaneli on Nov 7, 2012 22:35:57 GMT -5
I stand by what I said.
I gave an explanation, not an accusation.
In my opinion, when one discusses race, the problem is that it is only brought up when most blatant, and is often decried when it is subtle. You may say there was zero reason, I respectfully disagree. When subtle is summed up as zero, that is far more disparaging.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2012 0:37:53 GMT -5
Look, it is easy to go to race in this situation, but that isn't always the case.
My wife teaches high school math in Duncanville, TX (South Dallas). Her students actually said to her this past week, "You cannot vote for Romney, b/c he wants to get rid of my food-stamps." That was neither a race thing, nor a party affiliation thing. They simply don't want to work for their food.
Additionally, my wife has dealt with lower-income families as they WELCOME into their homes children born to teenage daughters. They welcome them b/c it means more welfare dollars and food-stamps. Parents are happy that their 14 year old is having their 2nd child b/c it means more government assistance. Actual quote from a 14 year old's parent, "Well, with any luck, my daughter will have at least one more before she is 18." That is ridiculous!
That is what is happening around this country right now. People are refusing to work b/c unemployment pays them enough to live comfortably. And they never have to worry about food, b/c that is taken care of too now. You can even get cell phone service provided by welfare in this country.
At what point is it enough?
[also, racism goes both ways. whites, latinos, germans, jews, they all experience racism, sometimes it is called reverse discrimination, but it still exists.]
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Nov 8, 2012 5:21:04 GMT -5
to say that the 47% of people on government assistance are happy with that is ridiculous. sure, some of the people take advantage of the system but most people are out of work because there's no jobs from years of bad governing and politicians refusing to work together to fix the situation.
again, i don't get into politics because it's pointless, i see how many issues could be resolved very quickly and i don't act like a child.
the only thing that would've been accomplished if Romney were elected is the rich would've gotten richer and the poor would've got poorer and there's simply not enough angry and/or ignorant white males with their idiot spouses (how could any female be a republican? that blows my mind. forget the abortion issue, most republicans vote against equal pay for women. that even offends me.) to outweigh everyone else.
the republican party's finished, everyone sees through their bullshit. it's 2012, there's more enlightened and young and forward thinking people than ignorant, bigoted people clinging to their bibles and backward ways.
good riddance and God bless.
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Post by gdforever on Nov 8, 2012 15:28:32 GMT -5
I stand by what I said. I gave an explanation, not an accusation. In my opinion, when one discusses race, the problem is that it is only brought up when most blatant, and is often decried when it is subtle. You may say there was zero reason, I respectfully disagree. When subtle is summed up as zero, that is far more disparaging. Interpreting "those who enjoy getting government handouts" as being equivalent to "racial minorities" is the single biggest racist thing on this thread. There was zero reference to race in the original comment. Not subtle...zero. I'm done with this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2012 19:19:01 GMT -5
l4e only has himself to blame as he doesn't vote.
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Post by NYR on Nov 12, 2012 12:59:22 GMT -5
under obama, the recession ended, osama bin laden was killed, the unemployment rate dropped, the iraq war ended, a healthcare bill was passed (while not perfect, it's much better than what was in place before) and the auto industry was saved. unlike his predecessor, he acted swiftly after a hurricane. and he did all of this under a congress that attempted to stonewall everything he did for political reasons. he was popular in the international community and brought the country to a more respectable position abroad.
i'm not saying he's the greatest president ever, but he did get stuff done and was a much better candidate than mitt romney.
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Post by masterplan200 on Nov 13, 2012 12:42:01 GMT -5
Screenshot from Romney's website......after he loses
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Post by gdforever on Nov 13, 2012 15:09:56 GMT -5
^whoops...
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Nov 19, 2012 21:26:45 GMT -5
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Nov 29, 2012 16:08:46 GMT -5
Remaking The Republican Party Mitt Romney’s poor performance among minority voters, single women, and young people has led many top Republicans to call for an overhaul of the party’s image. Here are some options the GOP is considering to extend its appeal: -Start nominating hipper, more relatable 65-year-old men -Begin rolling the R’s in “deportation” and “border fence” -A bunch of abortions and stuff—whatever the gals want -Change nothing and wait for rest of country to come to its senses -Project youthful vibe by requiring Republican congressmen to walk around Capitol doing yo-yo tricks -Change party mascot to a Hispanic elephant -Start one of those Twitter hashtags -Eh, fuck it—just disenfranchise as many people as possible www.theonion.com/articles/remaking-the-republican-party,30551/
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2012 18:27:21 GMT -5
has romney got himself a slot on fox news yet?
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Post by Let It 🩸 on Dec 4, 2012 18:35:47 GMT -5
has romney got himself a slot on fox news yet? even Fox news is distancing itself from Mitt Romney. God bless.
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