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Post by Norbert Gallhager on Oct 11, 2011 11:59:26 GMT -5
But different people judge guitar skills differently. There's people who think that guy named Battio is amazing. Yeah he's fast, but that's it. It sounds like shit. I'd put Noel miles ahead of him. Agreed. It's not a contest like who can play more notes in a second. It's about the sound.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 15:39:51 GMT -5
I hardly agree with any of this hahaha Noel is an exceptional songwriter, no question about that really! But if you're judging the quality of guitar playing, he is quite far from what I'd consider a genius guitarist. What makes his solos sound good is his very good sense of melody.. The quality of the technique and basically what you are capable of with that technique..that for me defines what kind of guitarist you really are.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 17:57:44 GMT -5
I don't really get into watching a grown man look like he is masturbating an elephant just to claim he is a "great" guitarist. I prefer quality sounds over a myriad of neck wanking.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 19:22:45 GMT -5
He may not be page or Hendrix but he created riffs that will live on long after him or this forum
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Post by Bruno on Feb 3, 2013 0:20:05 GMT -5
He may not be page or Hendrix but he created riffs that will live on long after him or this forum Exactly and in the end that's what matters. If you play like Hendrix but can't make an original tune to save your life, what's it worth. So IMO because of this, he is a GREAT guitar player!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 0:58:41 GMT -5
He may not be page or Hendrix but he created riffs that will live on long after him or this forum Exactly and in the end that's what matters. If you play like Hendrix but can't make an original tune to save your life, what's it worth. So IMO because of this, he is a GREAT guitar player! Exactly Bruno ..look at Steve vai. Dude shreds guitar but is nothing more than a glorified session man..great guitarist but no writing or song creation skills ,,,sorta like a girl who's a 10 but not gonna put out ,,,,ill take the 7 or 8 that produces ,lol
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Post by spaneli on Feb 3, 2013 11:17:34 GMT -5
He may not be page or Hendrix but he created riffs that will live on long after him or this forum Exactly and in the end that's what matters. If you play like Hendrix but can't make an original tune to save your life, what's it worth. So IMO because of this, he is a GREAT guitar player! Completely disagree. You describing a great songwriter, not a great guitarist. Great songwriting does not make great guitar playing. And just because a guitarist can't write an original tune doesn't detract from him being a great guitarist. A guitarist is measured by his knowledge of the guitar, not songwriting. Someone being a great violinist is not dependent on that person being able to write their own concertos. So why hold a guitarist to the same standard. Kurt Cobain wrote amazingly catchy hook riff, but I don't think anyone would call Cobain a GREAT guitarist. So why call Noel that? It just seems like giving him too much credit as a guitarist because he's a great songwriter.
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Post by Bruno on Feb 3, 2013 11:27:13 GMT -5
But that's the point isn't it. If you're a great guitarist as you put it you can be in a basement all your life doing the most amazing solos and no one would know, but it's what you play that counts. And lets be fair what is counted as a great guitarist? I really love all of Noel's solos, sure they might not be like Hendrix or Townshend but he is able to do guitar solos with ease. So if that doesn't qualify him as at least a good guitarist, what will? In the end Oasis were not a band based around guitar solos, so it would be crazy if he pulled a Page in his songs. Keeping that in mind, if we were to go by your definition of what comprises a good guitarist, Noel would still be considered a very good guitarist.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 11:44:26 GMT -5
Exactly and in the end that's what matters. If you play like Hendrix but can't make an original tune to save your life, what's it worth. So IMO because of this, he is a GREAT guitar player! Completely disagree. You describing a great songwriter, not a great guitarist. Great songwriting does not make great guitar playing. And just because a guitarist can't write an original tune doesn't detract from him being a great guitarist. A guitarist is measured by his knowledge of the guitar, not songwriting. Someone being a great violinist is not dependent on that person being able to write their own concertos. So why hold a guitarist to the same standard. Kurt Cobain wrote amazingly catchy hook riff, but I don't think anyone would call Cobain a GREAT guitarist. So why call Noel that? It just seems like giving him too much credit as a guitarist because he's a great songwriter. Your right spanelli ....my point as well like I said Noel's riffs will be around longer than this forum or us ..so will Kurt's ...it's males them legends ,great writers ,and guitarists that no how to get the most of a catchy riff ,,,not a virtuoso like page and Hendrix but his there riffs virtuoso like or not gotta count for something plenty of other mediocre guitarists would kill for riffs like wonder wall,slide away,ect ect or teen spirit ,lithium ect ect,,,those songs will be played in 2060 like 50s tunes are now not page like ...but legend like regardless
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 11:45:23 GMT -5
U both make very good points by the way
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Post by spaneli on Feb 3, 2013 11:46:11 GMT -5
But that's the point isn't it. If you're a great guitarist as you put it you can be in a basement all your life doing the most amazing solos and no one would know, but it's what you play that counts. And lets be fair what is counted as a great guitarist? I really love all of Noel's solos, sure they might not be like Hendrix or Townshend but he is able to do guitar solos with ease. So if that doesn't qualify him as at least a good guitarist, what will? In the end Oasis were not a band based around guitar solos, so it would be crazy if he pulled a Page in his songs. Keeping that in mind, if we were to go by your definition of what comprises a good guitarist, Noel would still be considered a very good guitarist. No, it's not. To be perfectly honest, that's fairly demeaning to people who actually practice the craft of learning guitar and perfecting it. There are some great guitarists that no one would know, but that doesn't discount the difficult work it took for them to get to their level of playing. Either you're a great guitarist or you're not. They are some guys, they can stay in their basement, they're still great guitarists. It's not about how many people know you, it's about the craft. And any guitarist who says it's anything different, shouldn't be playing a guitar. He's able to do guitar solos with ease because he goes note for note within a pentatonic. That doesn't qualify as a great guitarist in my opinion. Not even a good guitarist. He's a competent one. And even he's admitted so, himself. What counts as a guitarist is the knowledge and your ability to apply that knowledge to your craft. Noel has a limited ability to apply the knowledge of his craft toward his actual playing. It's the craft that matters. Which is again, why very few people would say Kurt Cobain is a great guitarist. By your definition, Kurt Cobain would be a great guitarist.
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Post by Bruno on Feb 3, 2013 11:48:55 GMT -5
Ok point taken, He's a competent guitarist but for me its amazing what he's able to achieve with this limited amount of skill as you put it. But that's just my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 11:50:21 GMT -5
Has anyone ever devised a quality metric for the measurement of guitar playing skills?
Everyone learns to play guitar by playing tracks that he/she loves. I'm sure Noel has on occasion played Hendrix solos, or Townsend solos as he was honing his talent on the guitar. He just chooses to approach it differently when writing.
Anybody ever go to a guitar shop in the states?
If you do, you will inevitably hear a few things. 1) Metallica riffs 2) Stairway to Heaven 3) Some amateur guitar players playing these, but they still can do it (some of them). I rarely come across a player who i think is genuinely good at playing, but yet ALL of them can play some of the most classic guitar solos out there. This does not mean that these amateurs are "great" guitarist simply because they can play something written by someone with more talent then themselves.
I think the argument that songwriting doesn't mean a thing to great guitar playing is ignoring the principal idea of what the guitar is for . . . creation. If you cannot create something great then you are not great. Likewise if you do create greatness, than by association you are great as well.
For me Noel is a great guitarist. Just maybe not the technical best "player" of the guitar.
Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 11:51:26 GMT -5
Like I said you both make good arguments Bruno anyone who remembers me knows I don't sit on fence usually am a right prick to be fair but you guys both are passionate and make sense ...so I'm gonna follow both of u on here ...I must be getting old to be neutral...lol
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Post by spaneli on Feb 3, 2013 12:11:20 GMT -5
If you play 4 chords on a guitar? Does that make you a great or a good guitarist? No. You can get a hit song with those 4 chords, but that doesn't make a great guitarist. That's why a great songwriter is different from a great guitarist.
Taylor Swift can play 4 chords on a guitar and create. That doesn't make her a great guitarist. Adam Levine can write solos and is a good songwriter, that doesn't makes him a great guitarist. The problem with calling Noel a great guitarist is that once you name him as one, you might as well name a few host of others as "great" guitarist. One has to make the definition, even a skeleton definition of a great guitarist very loose to call Noel one.
Secondly, it's funny when people say that they wouldn't want Noel to be Hendrix or Page because Noel is complementary to his songs. Well guess what? Hendrix and Page were both side men before they became lead guitarists. Hendrix was second guitar to Chuck Berry, the Isley Brothers, Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Little Richard, and Curtis Mayfield. Complimenting many of his songs live. Page played for the Who, the Kinks, Petula Clark, The Rolling Stones, Donovan, and played parts to Goldfinger.
One could make the case that they're the most complimentary guitarists of all-time.
Which is why they're great guitarists. They're extremely adaptable and are able to highly succeed. Many of the sideman jobs that Noel has gotten, he wouldn't have gotten if he weren't Noel Gallagher. Noel is also not a very adaptable guitarist.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 3, 2013 12:13:42 GMT -5
Ok point taken, He's a competent guitarist but for me its amazing what he's able to achieve with this limited amount of skill as you put it. But that's just my opinion. Noel knows his limitations as a guitarist and he's learned to work around them and exploit what he is good at. He knows what he is capable of and isn't. That's what makes him a good songwriter.
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Post by Bruno on Feb 3, 2013 12:16:50 GMT -5
If you play 4 chords on a guitar? Does that make you a great or a good guitarist? No. You can get a hit song with those 4 chords, but that doesn't make a great guitarist. That's why a great songwriter is different from a great guitarist. Taylor Swift can play 4 chords on a guitar and create. That doesn't make her a great guitarist. Adam Levine can write solos and is a good songwriter, that doesn't makes him a great guitarist. The problem with calling Noel a great guitarist is that once you name him as one, you might as well name a few host of others as "great" guitarist. One has to make the definition, even a skeleton definition of a great guitarist very loose to call Noel one. Secondly, it's funny when people say that they wouldn't want Noel to be Hendrix or Page because Noel is complementary to his songs. Well guess what? Hendrix and Page were both side men before they became lead guitarists. Hendrix was second guitar to Chuck Berry, the Isley Brothers, Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Little Richard, and Curtis Mayfield. Complimenting many of his songs live. Page played for the Who, the Kinks, Petula Clark, The Rolling Stones, Donovan, and played parts to Goldfinger. One could make the case that they're the most complimentary guitarists of all-time. Which is why they're great guitarists. They're extremely adaptable and are able to highly succeed. Many of the sideman jobs that Noel has gotten, he wouldn't have gotten if he weren't Noel Gallagher. Noel is also not a very adaptable guitarist. In the end this whole argument is subjective isn't it. I consider him a very good guitarist, you don't. Fair enough.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:21:41 GMT -5
U both make very good points by the way Jump to 2:25 . . .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:23:12 GMT -5
If you play 4 chords on a guitar? Does that make you a great or a good guitarist? No. You can get a hit song with those 4 chords, but that doesn't make a great guitarist. That's why a great songwriter is different from a great guitarist. Taylor Swift can play 4 chords on a guitar and create. That doesn't make her a great guitarist. Adam Levine can write solos and is a good songwriter, that doesn't makes him a great guitarist. The problem with calling Noel a great guitarist is that once you name him as one, you might as well name a few host of others as "great" guitarist. One has to make the definition, even a skeleton definition of a great guitarist very loose to call Noel one. Secondly, it's funny when people say that they wouldn't want Noel to be Hendrix or Page because Noel is complementary to his songs. Well guess what? Hendrix and Page were both side men before they became lead guitarists. Hendrix was second guitar to Chuck Berry, the Isley Brothers, Sam Cooke, Jackie Wilson, Little Richard, and Curtis Mayfield. Complimenting many of his songs live. Page played for the Who, the Kinks, Petula Clark, The Rolling Stones, Donovan, and played parts to Goldfinger. One could make the case that they're the most complimentary guitarists of all-time. Which is why they're great guitarists. They're extremely adaptable and are able to highly succeed. Many of the sideman jobs that Noel has gotten, he wouldn't have gotten if he weren't Noel Gallagher. Noel is also not a very adaptable guitarist. Your only half right on page spanelli he was a session man outta nessesitty to pay the bills he played as much session work as he could not to be complimentary but to eat....he played bass for yardbirds cause he was aching to be in a band of quality when that blew up he recreated the yardbirds to the best band musically of all time ..not because they were complimentary Hendrix and page needed to eat as well as have a ego so before you go on about complimentary guitarists don't just mention they were session men know why they were,, page and Hendrix always played lead but if u gotta pay bills you suck it up and do what people ask til u get a chance ...if a miajor leauge starter is a ace does it means he was a complimentary pitcher because he had to pitch relief in minors before he got shot to prove himself....I think not
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:26:21 GMT -5
U both make very good points by the way Jump to 2:25 . . . Like that very cool ..I wasn't fence sitting on spinellis post about page and Hendrix though he don't got all the facts there
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:31:10 GMT -5
Like that very cool ..I wasn't fence sitting on spinellis post about page and Hendrix though he don't got all the facts there See jit no fence sitting on that ,,just not the old me where I get all bent out of shape if someone disagrees with me ......age sux lol. By the way spinellis is way off base on page and Hendrix he must not have known there backgrounds and why they played session work but no more yelling for me I try to rational these days
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:34:42 GMT -5
See jit no fence sitting on that ,,just not the old me where I get all bent out of shape if someone disagrees with me ......age sux lol. By the way spinellis is way off base on page and Hendrix he must not have known there backgrounds and why they played session work but no more yelling for me I try to rational these days You don't have to explain anything to me. I am just glad that the forum is debating like civilized people again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:36:33 GMT -5
See jit no fence sitting on that ,,just not the old me where I get all bent out of shape if someone disagrees with me ......age sux lol. By the way spinellis is way off base on page and Hendrix he must not have known there backgrounds and why they played session work but no more yelling for me I try to rational these days You don't have to explain anything to me. I am just glad that the forum is debating like civilized people again. it got that bad What happened ,,,I was away
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:42:24 GMT -5
Secondly, it's funny when people say that they wouldn't want Noel to be Hendrix or Page because Noel is complementary to his songs. Well guess what? Hendrix and Page were both side men before they became lead guitarists. Right there is where you lost the plot spanelli they were not side men then they were lead guitarists who needed work and were talented enough to change there game to do it till there time came and they got a break...that don't make them side men spanelli it makes versatile ..there's a huge difference dude sidemen can't play like them but they can play like sidemen if need be ,,just like a fighter who can outbox or knock u out just as easy ,that's rare so were they
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 12:43:27 GMT -5
it got that bad What happened ,,,I was away We had an influx of new members who decided that their goal in life was to start World War 3 via the forum. Everything turned to insults rather than actual debate. Many threads got play-penned as a result, and some of the best members left the forum rather than dealing with all the crap. In a word it was . . . childish! However, over the past couple of weeks it has gotten progressively better.
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