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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2005 20:51:35 GMT -5
i lost 2 of the greatest dudes i ever knew because of terroists..i los t gym guys that i respected more than anyone...i lost a cousin, a childhood freind and saw 1 plane with my own eyes slam into thje WTC so when i read anti us crap like HAKIM..AND UTTER BULLSHIT BY MAPE( I KNOW ALL ABOUT YOU TRUST ME ) AND NOT TO SEE ANY DEFENCE OF ME OR THE USA SICKENS ME..I JUST WANTED TO SAY THIS BEFORE I GO...I THINK MAPE IS A PEICE OF CRAP A REAL WISE ASS LITLE BITCH,,,AS IS HAKIM...I CANT STAY ON A PLACE LIKE THIS AS I WILL ALWAYS BE GETTIN MAD..FECKARSE AND SHAKER , U MAKE GOOD POINTS , I RESPECT THEM,,I BELIEVE HOWEVER IN A EYE FOR A EYE..AND I WANT THE PEOPLE AND THE COUNTRIES THAT SUPPORT THESE TERROISTS TO PAY..I DONT CARE IF U LIKE IT OR NOT..I WAS DRINKIN WITH A MATE OF MINE ON 9/09/01..I WAS GOINT HIS MEMORIAL 2 WEEKS LATER...SO FUCK OFF ALL U LIBERAL KIDS WHO LOVE TO THINK THE WORLD IS PERFECT ..IT AINT....AND MAPE U ARE TRULY A DICK, U TRY TO POST WITTY BUT YOUR NOT..GROW BALLS 1 DAY AND STATE A OPINION RATHER THAN BE A DICK...I AM OUT...I WONT DELETE MY ACCOUNT ..BUT I WONT POST..THAT I GUARANTEE..ANYONE WANNA TALK WITH ME PM ME ....I NEEDED TO SAY THAT...LATER
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Post by castlecraver on Jun 19, 2005 21:42:26 GMT -5
steve.... just wanted to say im truly, truly sorry about your friends you lost.... your post touches a chord man. i hope you change your mind and eventually post again but regardless i WILL raise one to fallen brothers with you on wednesday. and then hoist another for OASIS
9.11 was a surreal experience to me... i remember waking up and turning on the tv and thinking it was a movie or something. as i was telling someone the other day i dont believe anyone alive at that time apart from those who lived through pearl harbor really understood what an attack on our homeland was... and i think the united states should do everything it takes to punish those responsible and assure it never happens again
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Post by StepOut on Jun 19, 2005 22:34:48 GMT -5
Kalas, you deleted your account again!?!?!
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Post by mape on Jun 20, 2005 0:42:18 GMT -5
If you want to go ahead and call me names, and get others to agree with you then go for it by all means. I'm not going to argue with you. I posted my opinion previously - it wasn't any joke and any wit implied was just to lighten the tone. You couldn't handle it so what can i say. Someone attacked what you stand for and you defended your views. I did the same. No one is saying you can't argue back but everyone has to remember to stay between the lines.
You can't agree with everyone because that's just the way life is - whether it be in life or even something as trivial as a message forum. As long as we are different, we will have differences. I'm sure you have had arguments with friends about which movie to watch, or where to go eat, and i bet you've had some arguments with those big assed woman about who is going to be on top.
So start posting again and don't get upset if someone disagrees with you, whether it be political or over tastes in music. You have people here that respect you and i'm sure they want you to be a part of the forum.
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Post by shakermaker00 on Jun 20, 2005 1:10:25 GMT -5
come on steve, quit the fuckin drama. i have a 9/11 story too. i was talkin to this bird from new york and when the shit happened i called her to see if everything was ok. she said her dad was helping with rescues or something and i said something like serves them right for bullying everyone. she hung up and i never heard from her again. her fuckin number went bad, her email went bad...everything. i dont fuckin know what happened to her father or anything. i just sense that something bad happened...and i have to live with my twatty remark for the rest of my life and i will never forget it. fuck war. kalas stop the fuckin drama, i feel bad about all the crap but war is never an answer thats all thats to it. like i said before my family thought eachother and i heard horrorstories on both ends, theres never a winner or a loser in war
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2005 1:28:27 GMT -5
If you want to go ahead and call me names, and get others to agree with you then go for it by all means. I'm not going to argue with you. I posted my opinion previously - it wasn't any joke and any wit implied was just to lighten the tone. You couldn't handle it so what can i say. Someone attacked what you stand for and you defended your views. I did the same. No one is saying you can't argue back but everyone has to remember to stay between the lines. You can't agree with everyone because that's just the way life is - whether it be in life or even something as trivial as a message forum. As long as we are different, we will have differences. I'm sure you have had arguments with friends about which movie to watch, or where to go eat, and i bet you've had some arguments with those big assed woman about who is going to be on top. So start posting again and don't get upset if someone disagrees with you, whether it be political or over tastes in music. You have people here that respect you and i'm sure they want you to be a part of the forum. ok..fair play..u make a valid point ...i guess i just get too intense sometimes.. i will post
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2005 1:29:43 GMT -5
come on steve, quit the fuckin drama. i have a 9/11 story too. i was talkin to this bird from new york and when the shit happened i called her to see if everything was ok. she said her dad was helping with rescues or something and i said something like serves them right for bullying everyone. she hung up and i never heard from her again. her fuckin number went bad, her email went bad...everything. i dont fuckin know what happened to her father or anything. i just sense that something bad happened...and i have to live with my twatty remark for the rest of my life and i will never forget it. fuck war. kalas stop the fuckin drama, i feel bad about all the crap but war is never an answer thats all thats to it. like i said before my family thought eachother and i heard horrorstories on both ends, theres never a winner or a loser in war you are right christian...i will tone it down and stop the drama..i just get so crazy when i get mad..sorry
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Post by masterplan200 on Jun 20, 2005 1:43:19 GMT -5
Had an ear to the radio on 9/12 (happened on that thursday) and one of them was saying the terrorists wanted to get the whole building, her sister was involved in 9/11 but survived
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Post by nyr401994 on Jun 20, 2005 12:44:47 GMT -5
my dad was a fireman who died of lung cancer from the asbestos (and cigarettes).
kalas, you made my day! you're staying!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2005 15:45:02 GMT -5
Kalas I'm truly sorry about what happened to you but that doesn't give you the right to say let's nuke all of the Middle-East. It just doesn't work that way. Just get the bastards who did it, torture 'em to the bone and everything but you can't kill innocent people on the other side just because innocent people on one side were killed. sorry mate..but that is where we disagree..and i respect your view but i dont agree..on 9/11 throughout the mideast people were celebrating in victory over the attacks..it was universally shown on tv so dont say it was propaganda...my feeling is if people support it i wont feel bad for them for the retribution..sorry but to me thats not a stron argument mate
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Post by albertzz on Jun 20, 2005 16:36:43 GMT -5
those last two posts were the best and got to the essence of the controversy.
kalas thinks that if a terrorist treats all infidels as the enmy, as they do and that when they attack a hell of a lot of their people celebrate then it's perfectly legitimate for us to do the same back to them.
This position is called "eye for an eye".
It is an understandable position that people feel. Yet, it is a position that I disagree with for I think it is born out of too much emotion and to o much emotion rarely solves things. You need to sit down and think about them rationally. Foir instance, 9/11 was a tragedy. but, and forgive me, in the grand scheme of things, itw as not that big a deal and certainly not worth invading the wrong country over or nuking the middle east. Now, regardless of what you think there's no need for it to have created such animosity. We don't like the terrorists because they treated all of us as the enemy. If we think it was bad for them to do that, then we shouldn't do the same. To do otherwise is to be inconsistent. Unless you're ok with that. But that doesn't make sense. Unless you're ok with not making sense.
Now, either way we should all remember that "ut humiliter opinor" should be treated as this private zone. IE - Don't let people's opinions affect your opinion of them. If you can't then maybe don't post here. Try to treat it as a little separate place and everything will be ok. Believe me I've almsot ruined friendships over stupid arguments and it was a slow learning process but I have managed to divorce people's opinons from the people themselves.
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Post by Mario on Jun 20, 2005 17:23:24 GMT -5
"An eye for an eye" Wouldnt we all be blind?
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Post by Dominic on Jun 20, 2005 17:47:58 GMT -5
eye for an eye is the reason that racism is still about today and conflicts with your idea of reverse racism, and also the reason that to this day there is style conflict in northern ireland, if people could just say actually im gonna have the fuckin intellagence and witt to not retalate ill make myself look bigger, however USA did have to respond in Afganistan
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Post by daysleeper on Jun 20, 2005 18:11:45 GMT -5
yeah the concept of an eye for an eye is bullshit. as much as i agree with most of the decisions and direction taken by the US and UK since 9/11 - this eye for an eye idea is fatally flawed.
The only way it could possibly succeed (assuming both sides play by the same rules) is through one side annihilating the other. Complete extermination
You're talking about mass genocide on a scale not seen since Hitler. Who in their right mind would condone that? well who apart from the usual roll coll - Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hussein, Bin Laden.....
Would the US and mankind overall be better off if George W Bush's name was added to that list?
Albertzz makes some great points - the concept just does not make sense.
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Post by DixonHill on Jun 20, 2005 18:19:33 GMT -5
can i just say i was watching pulp fiction when 9/11 happened.
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Post by Dominic on Jun 20, 2005 18:23:26 GMT -5
can i just say i was watching pulp fiction when 9/11 happened. i though i was the only one who watched pulp fiction during the day
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2005 20:36:11 GMT -5
yeah the concept of an eye for an eye is bullshit. as much as i agree with most of the decisions and direction taken by the US and UK since 9/11 - this eye for an eye idea is fatally flawed. The only way it could possibly succeed (assuming both sides play by the same rules) is through one side annihilating the other. Complete extermination You're talking about mass genocide on a scale not seen since Hitler. Who in their right mind would condone that? well who apart from the usual roll coll - Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hussein, Bin Laden..... Would the US and mankind overall be better off if George W Bush's name was added to that list? Albertzz makes some great points - the concept just does not make sense. daysleeper i quoted u because yours is the longest post ..but this is adressed to DOM and the rest of you who disagree with my view..you are entitled but until you physically lose a loved one ( good freind ,relative neighbor,) of which i have lost all 3.......then let me see how easy you will post such pacifist ideology DAYSLEEPER..SHADOWBOXER gets killed in the wtc u will not want revenge??? your mother gets killed you turn the other cheek??? NOT ME
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Post by Kamikazi on Jun 20, 2005 20:49:23 GMT -5
I'm anti-war in Iraq, but I do think that Afghanistan was appropriate Attacks or not, it was a terrorist regime running a country, sooner or later it had to happen, the worst part though is what it took to start it
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Post by albertzz on Jun 20, 2005 20:57:47 GMT -5
by the worst part was what it took to start it - do you mean that the US should have gone in in the absence of 9/11?
(If so, I completely disagree. ie - on what basis? it sucks there? well so? if it is in violation of UN conventions then the UN can go oin but the States can't do wahtever the fuck it wants - that's called international terrorism which supposedly we hate - besides we were dealing, somewhat with Afghanistan, two cruise missiles were sent a ta base where bin laden was in 98, I think, and they just missed him - after that it became harder to track him b/c he reverted to low-tech communication)
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Post by nyr401994 on Jul 2, 2005 20:49:30 GMT -5
i knew two brothers, one who was in the fdny and the other in the nypd, who died on 9/11- the first time in american history that two brothers died in the same event (whether it be war, terrorism, etc.) in different services. imagine their kids, losing their father AND uncle in the same day, out of the blue.
now let me say that if this was me (because i get quite passionate, a little less than kalas though ;-)), i might be screaming bloody murder and go to afghanistan myself, but LET REASON OVERCOME PASSION.
i agree with hakim stating ghandi's proverb that "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind".
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Post by Way Cool Jr. on Jul 7, 2005 22:46:57 GMT -5
i think the entire world needs the stand together against terrorism...the whole your with us or against us stuff only works when everybody who's not into terrorism is with us...the US needs everybody other than the terrorists as allies. The burden falls on the rest of the world, and for the US to convince them this is the way to go
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Post by Nicola on Jul 8, 2005 3:41:20 GMT -5
On september 11th, i was working in a holiday call centre in the UK and we had plasma screens all over it and we were watching what happened. The phone calls stopped and we were all stunned but to be honest, it was hard to believe it was really happening.
Obviously because of what happened, flights were cancelled that went over American airspace, i was on the helpline trying to advise people and we were telling them that there was to be no hand luggage allowed on flights to europe, some ladies were actually complaining that that would mean that they cannot take their make up on the flight with them !!!
As the tragedy finally sunk in, you did come to realise the extent of what happened.
When we were in New York for the MSG gig, we went to the shop Century 21 which is at the World Trade Centre Site. We got off the subway and before we knew it we were looking into the space were the towers were. It was one of the most chilling and surreal experiences of my life. We found it very hard to believe that there was anything in that space, those towers reduced to rubble.
It makes you put your own life in perspective.
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Post by nyr401994 on Jul 8, 2005 23:28:35 GMT -5
my dad was a fireman who helped out in ground zero. we went TO ground zero- we had to put on masks and goggles and everything. it was so scary, because it was 3 days after... the attacks were on a wednesday, and i went on a saturday. it was one of the most chilling moments i remember. the car had to be hosed down to get the asbestos and debris out (and to prevent it's spreading) when we left.
i was standing on what was once the world trade center. every possible feeling (except happiness, quite obviously) came to me. sadness, depression, fear, heavy stuff. and that last piece of the building that was still barely standing will always be planted in my mind.
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Post by Kamikazi on Jul 8, 2005 23:58:19 GMT -5
Hard to believe though, i was in grade 9, I remember I had french class and an announcement came over the PA at our school after the first plane hit. I never really took a hold of what was going on until my lunch rolled around. Some of my firends and I walked to a mall nearby and the TVs that got cable all had it on. I remember just standing there in awe and watching footage.
After that I went home and sat and flipped through news channels as each one started getting different footage. All it was was a video that I saw.
For all of you from NYC (and I know there's quite a few of you) it really couldn't be the same for me as it was for you.
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