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Post by Rain on Jun 22, 2005 2:20:47 GMT -5
It really seems a Feminist movement happening in Europe? I was noticing it yesterday while watching European Journal and talking to more European women lately. I don't think there is one in UK , but rest Europe it really seems so.
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Post by feckarse on Jun 22, 2005 8:28:58 GMT -5
It really seems a Feminist movement happening in Europe? I was noticing it yesterday while watching European Journal and talking to more European women lately. I don't think there is one in UK , but rest Europe it really seems so. i've noticed nawt, my washing machine did break down the other day, but i gave her a kick up the behind and she stopped whingeing pretty quick
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Post by Currian on Jun 22, 2005 12:56:59 GMT -5
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Post by caro on Jun 22, 2005 14:36:14 GMT -5
It really seems a Feminist movement happening in Europe? I was noticing it yesterday while watching European Journal and talking to more European women lately. I don't think there is one in UK , but rest Europe it really seems so. what do you mean? there's been many feminists organisations and groups in europe for quite a long time... one of the first feminist is french BTW (simone de beauvoir...) can you elaborate your point?
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Post by mape on Jun 22, 2005 14:39:31 GMT -5
i've noticed nawt, my washing machine did break down the other day, but i gave her a kick up the behind and she stopped whingeing pretty quick lol did you hear what Bernie Eccelstone said about women in F1? something like "women should dress in white and stay in the kitchen like all the other appliances" ;D
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Post by Rain on Jun 22, 2005 14:41:55 GMT -5
It really seems a Feminist movement happening in Europe? I was noticing it yesterday while watching European Journal and talking to more European women lately. I don't think there is one in UK , but rest Europe it really seems so. what do you mean? there's been many feminists organisations and groups in europe for quite a long time... one of the first feminist is french BTW (simone de beauvoir...) can you elaborate your point? I mean more stronger recent years
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Post by caro on Jun 22, 2005 15:01:09 GMT -5
I mean more stronger recent years in france there are strong feminists movements for more than 60 years as far as i know... they got the right to vote and little by little they imposed their visions to the politicians and made them vote many laws to promote equality between men and women in many fields such as work, private property....
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Post by albertzz on Jun 22, 2005 15:25:28 GMT -5
right - equal pay if it is actually equal work, being able to vote , not being treated as property or confined to the home all are good
less cool are fucking non-equal pay for equal work and sexism. By this I mean women firefighters. No, women, unless they can do it, should not be firefighters. Women, on the firefighter challenge get times of a minute slower and only have to carry lighter dummies. I'm sorry but if there's a fire I want to be successfully carried out. I prefer being alive to "equality". Handicapped people cannot and should not be firefighters. If women are similarly incapable then they should not either. If they can fine, if they can't then no. Absolutely not.
Similarly 3 "women's hours at the cinema" that's fucking stupid. There's that at my gym too. In a week there's 10 "women's only" hours. What the fuck? When are the men's hours? or the fat people's hours? or the super skinny people's hours? or the transgendered hours?
Equality is achieved through giving every person the SAME chance to compete given the SAME criteria.
Equality is NOT giving DIFFERENT criteria ON THE BASIS of sex. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF SEXISM.
It's fucking stupid. Feminist movements are in dire need in Africa and other places but they are in dire need of being repealed here in north america and europe or at least stopped.
The end to racism and sexism and all problems of that nature does not come from solutions BASED on those characteristics. It comes from treating those characteristics as unimportant, which allegedly there are. Fucking ridiculous.
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Post by Bizzle on Jun 22, 2005 15:29:24 GMT -5
Women don't deserve as much money as men. For example in Tennis why should women be paid the same amount for winning a trophy in a 3-set match than men who play 5-sets. Women protest about this but their case is flat.
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Post by caro on Jun 22, 2005 15:36:16 GMT -5
right - equal pay if it is actually equal work, being able to vote , not being treated as property or confined to the home all are good less cool are fucking non-equal pay for equal work and sexism. By this I mean women firefighters. No, women, unless they can do it, should not be firefighters. Women, on the firefighter challenge get times of a minute slower and only have to carry lighter dummies. I'm sorry but if there's a fire I want to be successfully carried out. I prefer being alive to "equality". Handicapped people cannot and should not be firefighters. If women are similarly incapable then they should not either. If they can fine, if they can't then no. Absolutely not. Similarly 3 "women's hours at the cinema" that's fucking stupid. There's that at my gym too. In a week there's 10 "women's only" hours. What the fuck? When are the men's hours? or the fat people's hours? or the super skinny people's hours? or the transgendered hours? Equality is achieved through giving every person the SAME chance to compete given the SAME criteria. Equality is NOT giving DIFFERENT criteria ON THE BASIS of sex. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF SEXISM. It's fucking stupid. Feminist movements are in dire need in Africa and other places but they are in dire need of being repealed here in north america and europe or at least stopped. The end to racism and sexism and all problems of that nature does not come from solutions BASED on those characteristics. It comes from treating those characteristics as unimportant, which allegedly there are. Fucking ridiculous. i dont agree on the fire fighter issue...many men are very weak and some women are as strong as elephants (lol) and can really be as efficient as men... same thing for building workers or more generally for physical strenght related works... i agree with you on "women hours" or things like that...that's stupid!!! as you said where are men hours?? that's some kind of positive discrimination i think...which i dont really approve of...quotas and things like that
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Post by albertzz on Jun 22, 2005 15:36:32 GMT -5
Well, with regards to tennis it's not even worth arguing about.
ie - how much should tennis stars be paid? who the fuck knows?
they're paid according to how much people are willing to pay to see them play. So women deserve exactly as much an dno more than people are willing to see them play. If people pay more to see them then men then good for them, they'll earn more, if they pay less, well then too bad for them, they'll earn less.
I was talking more about equal pay in terms of where it actually is equal work. Except I wasn't even talking about that, I was talking about what interested me more, which was towards the end.
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Post by albertzz on Jun 22, 2005 15:39:41 GMT -5
with regard to the firefighters thing - I agree - well that is to say, I stand by what I said - if they're actually qualified then fine - but if they're not then that's stupid - judging from my very limited knowledge which consists solely of "the firefighter's challenge" it doesn't seem taht they are qualified (at least when the best are compared they fall really, far far short - but maybe on average they can be qualified) I have no problems with them doing it if they're qualified
my problem is
SEPARATE CRITERIA UNRELATED TO THE WORK ACTIVITY BASED ONLY ON ONE"S SEX
this is the definition of sexism we find it appalling when it's done with regard to race (well except for reverse racism) so why do we seem not to care with regard to sex)
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Post by caro on Jun 22, 2005 15:46:34 GMT -5
with regard to the firefighters thing - I agree - well that is to say, I stand by what I said - if they're actually qualified then fine - but if they're not then that's stupid - judging from my very limited knowledge which consists solely of "the firefighter's challenge" it doesn't seem taht they are qualified (at least when the best are compared they fall really, far far short - but maybe on average they can be qualified) I have no problems with them doing it if they're qualified my problem is SEPARATE CRITERIA UNRELATED TO THE WORK ACTIVITY BASED ONLY ON ONE"S SEX this is the definition of sexism we find it appalling when it's done with regard to race (well except for reverse racism) so why do we seem not to care with regard to sex) yes ppl should be judged according to their qualifications and not their sex... actually i cant think of any job a man or a woman couldn't do...apart from being a man or a woman lol ;D (but a man can be a woman in our modern world and the contrary too... )
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Post by albertzz on Jun 22, 2005 15:57:20 GMT -5
I agree that women can do anything men can do and vice-versa. And the feminist movement was definitely needed. (that being said, while it was definitely needed I don't think that it was a conscious (for most) effort on the part of men to subjugate women so much as a more natural evolution that ended up that way) In any case, great strides ahve been made and I'm not completely opposed to affirmative action. Sometimes it is needed, but I think that you should get rid of it as soon as possible after it's no longer needed. But, other parts of the world that aren't as privileged as our own DEFINITELY need a women's movement. I'm not overly familiar with whether such an organization exist. I mean you always here about red cross, amnesty, unicef etc but I hope (as I assume there is) an international women's rights movement. Check out this article to see the desperate need: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8305836/(the lions in it are fucking cool, less cool are the men) and shit like FGM is totally uncool. BUT, that raises an interesting question itself, I hate FMG and think it's disgusting and think parents have no right to permanently alter their children physically. However, we accept it when it's done for religious purposes. I honestly think we shouldn't allow it. Corse this is not a reflected judgment, it's just what I'm thinking right now, maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by caro on Jun 22, 2005 16:07:51 GMT -5
everything needs to be done in many countries that's true IMO religion is the biggest obstacle for women's rights... religion just keeps women in their kitchens !!! things are changing little by little...i have faith
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Post by J.Velvert on Jun 23, 2005 0:39:38 GMT -5
I think in Sweden they're starting up a feminist-party, that will look at every political issue from womens point of view. Replying to the original post I think that's feminism going pretty far -> too far.
As for example Albertzz said, the West in general is in no need for expanding the feminist issue, but other parts of the world probably are. These cases should however not be looked at from a western point of view.
The firefighter thing is a bit funny to me. Sure the strongest women are stronger than the weakest men, but it's so much easier for a man to do physical work. Why should a woman want to do that in the first place? Strength is a natural talent for men.
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Post by rockandroll on Jun 23, 2005 1:16:04 GMT -5
IMO religion is the biggest obstacle for women's rights... religion just keeps women in their kitchens !!! And you are FRENCH!! ;D ;D ;D Paul Bocusse, Joel Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, etc, etc... would be dissipointed to read that... And you don't like wine either ...what's up with that?? ;D ;D
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Post by Rain on Jun 23, 2005 2:48:34 GMT -5
IMO religion is the biggest obstacle for women's rights... religion just keeps women in their kitchens !!! And you are FRENCH!! ;D ;D ;D Paul Bocusse, Joel Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, etc, etc... would be dissipointed to read that... And you don't like wine either ...what's up with that?? ;D ;D she must like cheese then lol
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Post by caro on Jun 23, 2005 12:10:17 GMT -5
IMO religion is the biggest obstacle for women's rights... religion just keeps women in their kitchens !!! And you are FRENCH!! ;D ;D ;D Paul Bocusse, Joel Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, etc, etc... would be dissipointed to read that... And you don't like wine either ...what's up with that?? ;D ;D i was talking about religion in general... dont like wine dont eat cheese... and those are chiefs...that's another issue...
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Post by Rain on Jun 23, 2005 12:17:15 GMT -5
And you are FRENCH!! ;D ;D ;D Paul Bocusse, Joel Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, etc, etc... would be dissipointed to read that... And you don't like wine either ...what's up with that?? ;D ;D i was talking about religion in general... dont like wine dont eat cheese... and those are chiefs...that's another issue... Do you at least like sex lol ?
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Post by caro on Jun 23, 2005 12:21:22 GMT -5
i was talking about religion in general... dont like wine dont eat cheese... and those are chiefs...that's another issue... Do you at least like sex lol ? i didn't know it was a french thing only... you should try someday ;D
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Post by Rain on Jun 23, 2005 12:25:23 GMT -5
Do you at least like sex lol ? i didn't know it was a french thing only... you should try someday ;D lol aren't see a funny one thanks for the nude photos of you yesterday you sent. Yeah, we can rent a hotel on the beach when you come;)
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Post by caro on Jun 23, 2005 12:33:04 GMT -5
i didn't know it was a french thing only... you should try someday ;D lol aren't see a funny one thanks for the nude photos of you yesterday you sent. Yeah, we can rent a hotel on the beach when you come;) you were not supposed to say that aloud... you really cant keep a secret ok back to feminism now
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Post by rockandroll on Jun 23, 2005 20:48:26 GMT -5
And you are FRENCH!! ;D ;D ;D Paul Bocusse, Joel Robuchon, Alain Ducasse, etc, etc... would be disappointed to read that... And you don't like wine either ...what's up with that?? ;D ;D i was talking about religion in general... dint like wine dont eat cheese... and those are chiefs...that's another issue... I know Caro, it was supposed to be a joke I take things out of context and stereotype people...that's what I do ;D
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Post by caro on Jun 23, 2005 23:29:00 GMT -5
I know Caro, it was supposed to be a joke I take things out of context and stereotype people...that's what I do ;D i know ;D i'm not the wine and cheese type lol
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